The entire point of putting Swiss colonists into Gallia was that it's such a dichotomy that it ends up adding conflict, and thus purpose, to the whole damn thing.
[7:18:38 PM] Vogel/Pryor: Rationalized, the Swiss who were 'not in Switzerland' at the time of the nukes slagging Earth were in the Western Alliance countries
[7:18:54 PM] Vogel/Pryor: Those Swiss managed to survive as a semi-cohesive and independent group, with the majority being in France
[7:19:31 PM] Vogel/Pryor: But the Swiss government never wanted to ally with anybody; the Switzerland of 2120 AD is so badass that they've kept themselves together with the same policies for that long. But nukes don't care about that
[7:20:26 PM] Vogel/Pryor: So technically speaking the Swiss survivors who wound up tagging along with the Western Alliance nations in space are displaced citizens of a nation that has not joined the Alliance. But what is the Alliance gonna do, vent them into space? Hell no, in fact as it says some of the Swiss even joined to fight for them as volunteers
[7:20:44 PM] Vogel/Pryor: But when the end comes, the five sleeper ships are stocked full 'based on nationality'.
[7:21:50 PM] Vogel/Pryor: There's no room for a multi-cultural "Swiss" population for the major nations like the US (which is a melting pot anyway), Germany (which probably bore a lot of the fighting and felt itself entitled to a ship of its own), Britain, and the Mediterranean all for the same reasons
[7:22:21 PM] Vogel/Pryor: But when a ship isn't made for France, either that or it is destroyed and not replaced, suddenly one of the great powers of the Alliance is shoved in the same boat: "Sorry, you're ****ed, buh-bai"
[7:22:59 PM] Vogel/Pryor: Therefore, the one nation that has the majority of out-of-country Swiss survivors is put into a position where it's been exiled to almost the same state as Switzerland at the last minute
[7:23:57 PM] Vogel/Pryor: Why in the name of God would the French government stab somebody else in the back in the same way if they had room on the Gallia to fit at least some of them?
[7:23:57 PM] Vogel/Pryor: Not even a lot, it wouldn't take a lot, a couple thousand even, Fact of the matter is they consider themselves 'Swiss'
[7:24:04 PM] Vogel/Pryor: So the Gallia sets off with a modicum of Swiss on board as a gesture of good faith
[7:24:45 PM] Vogel/Pryor: But when the ship finally lands the Frenchies pull out the monarchy card in the belief that the centralized government would be the most efficient to kickstart civilization. Naturally when its purpose has been served, it's already too ingrained in society to be removed
[7:25:27 PM] Vogel/Pryor: So there's conflict one: You have a huge plot of space with a huge house that's monocultural and with an aged undemocratic system that's lasted for how long?
[7:26:05 PM] Vogel/Pryor: Put a counter to that, even if it's small. Balance it 'somehow'; give a reason for the Council to rebel for freedom and rights to begin with, give a link to something 'other than monocultural monarchy'
[7:26:32 PM] Vogel/Pryor: Now, in terms of the population itself, bear in mind that the Swiss are multicultural and multiethnic, but they still call themselves "Swiss".
[7:27:12 PM] Vogel/Pryor: The Swiss and French colonists would no doubt intermingle for the first couple hundred years of colonization; intermarriage and all that. Ethnically and somewhat culturally they're the same, they're European
[7:27:41 PM] Vogel/Pryor: But here you have a subset of those descendents who still want to be called Swiss, and here you have this monarchist system that's digging in so deep it cannot be removed
[7:28:34 PM] Vogel/Pryor: The two are incompatible. Conflict. The solution doesn't lie in something insane like genocide; not even the crazy French kings who want to wage war on Sirius would do that. They want to conquer and get revenge, not wipe out a chunk of humanity
[7:29:09 PM] Vogel/Pryor: So what would be a solution? Naturalization? Well these Swiss colonists are practically part of the Gallic culture already, that is to say western European, with the same languages, some of the same heritage
[7:29:18 PM] Vogel/Pryor: But they insist on staying "Swiss", so that cannot work
[7:29:32 PM] Vogel/Pryor: You can't kill them, you can't get them to join you, so what else can you do?
[7:29:37 PM] Vogel/Pryor: You shove them in a corner.
[7:30:07 PM] Vogel/Pryor: You deprive them of any major capabilities but play it out like you're "granting them independence and free will" and all that **** when in reality you pointed at an icebox and said "Live there"
[7:31:19 PM] Vogel/Pryor: But these are the Swiss. These bastards have insisted on an independent namesake for some 70 or so years of bloody war and '380' years of a French-dominatic "Gallic" Monarchy
[7:31:39 PM] Vogel/Pryor: They're not going to lay down and die that easily. But what can they do if they're powerless?
[7:31:49 PM] Vogel/Pryor: Well they're only powerless because all they knew was 'Gallia'.
[7:32:23 PM] Vogel/Pryor: In steps the Council, freedom fighters, "Oh look at that, they have democracy, damn that's a fine concept, we should have something to those ends, that's worth fighting for; France had democracy too yknow!"
[7:33:08 PM] Vogel/Pryor: So they fight. The Gallic king is grinding his teeth but he can't up and remove the Swiss; he cannot commit blatant genocide; it goes contrary to everything that the original French government and the government of Gallia prior decided on
[7:33:30 PM] Vogel/Pryor: But it's still in check, it's still small, secluded, dependant on resources; We'll crush these rebels, who cares?
[7:33:35 PM] Vogel/Pryor: Jump Hole to Sirius.
[7:33:39 PM] Vogel/Pryor: **** Hits the Fan.
[7:33:42 PM] Vogel/Pryor: That's the idea.
More gold from Xander.
By the by, you already know this Xander, but just to say it publicly, I love this idea. I think it would add so much to the Galic experience and open up new avenues for the game in terms of RPing, diplomacy, and being able to portray an interaction with the galic monarchy that is not one of war.
Okey it seems everyone loves it and respects your work But this thing is not too correct. Its wery bad idea.
I tell you why.
We have a rule for that people cannot mark themselves with 'eir nations tags. And you are not only to use the nation thing, but want to get new guns ships systems stuff roles rules rights heads, blabla. And about to build your whole country into space. And everyone loves it? Hell. Too many Habsbourg players as it seems. And there is no n....i gold in space what you could make you build a country like in RL 6.66
Okey. here are a few syteams (factions, nations things n stuff) what has a right to write a similar long similarly designed faction non-proposal:
-New Hungary (yeah there are a lot of Hungarian players and they want the Middle of the whole galaxy). Ofc with own guns and ships and so. Pff.
-New Uganda
-New Russia
-New Paraguay
-New Atlantis (yeah they deserve to live again
understand now or I have to continue?
So to say it even more clear: just cause in RL switzerland is a strong (read: pathetically rich) and important (read: sure. place to store tht ww2 gold. eeeeeek) nation it does not mean that they deserve to receive a whole nation (esp not a so special one) cause in this case every single small or big nation could have a spot and a few guns n ships in the space. And thats a bit hard work for dev team.
Even if the whole disco thing is BASED on History it does not mean that you should receive a nation-faction-thing instantly after you work a few weeks on a non-proposal.
Or as I said I could ask a few dozens of writers to spam the forum with new-Guatemala and New-Hungary proposals.
Sorry again bro but I think the existing nations/factions should be designed even more detailed instead of settin up new swiss-blades.
MAke a faction Swiss-Legion or wahtever, but hell adopting a new nation is a bit ...uncorrect towards the other nations. Unless you prove me that the server poulations 90 percent are Swiss. Or whatever.
GL with new Switzerland.
Quote:Okey it seems everyone loves it and respects your work But this thing is not too correct. Its wery bad idea.
I tell you why.
We have a rule for that people cannot mark themselves with 'eir nations tags. And you are not only to use the nation thing, but want to get new guns ships systems stuff roles rules rights heads, blabla. And about to build your whole country into space. And everyone loves it? Hell. Too many Habsbourg players as it seems. And there is no n....i gold in space what you could make you build a country like in RL 6.66
Okey. here are a few syteams (factions, nations things n stuff) what has a right to write a similar long similarly designed faction non-proposal:
-New Hungary (yeah there are a lot of Hungarian players and they want the Middle of the whole galaxy). Ofc with own guns and ships and so. Pff.
-New Uganda
-New Russia
-New Paraguay
-New Atlantis (yeah they deserve to live again
understand now or I have to continue?
So to say it even more clear: just cause in RL switzerland is a strong (read: pathetically rich) and important (read: sure. place to store tht ww2 gold. eeeeeek) nation it does not mean that they deserve to receive a whole nation (esp not a so special one) cause in this case every single small or big nation could have a spot and a few guns n ships in the space. And thats a bit hard work for dev team.
Even if the whole disco thing is BASED on History it does not mean that you should receive a nation-faction-thing instantly after you work a few weeks on a non-proposal.
Or as I said I could ask a few dozens of writers to spam the forum with new-Guatemala and New-Hungary proposals.
Sorry again bro but I think the existing nations/factions should be designed even more detailed instead of settin up new swiss-blades.
MAke a faction Swiss-Legion or wahtever, but hell adopting a new nation is a bit ...uncorrect towards the other nations. Unless you prove me that the server poulations 90 percent are Swiss. Or whatever.
GL with new Switzerland.
This is a grand goal, not something we expect to pop ingame like magic.
And please, hold your tongue about new Uganda and whatnot... This is not about Switzerland as the country it is now.... it is about an idea... Switzerland just happens to be the perfect label for this and in the perfect layout for this RP.
It really crosses me in the wrong way when people do stuff like this, ( I want new Venisuala I want new Texas, I want new India.) this is just a fancy way of ignoring the content and saying NO U!!!!
Also, Xander is from Philadelphia, PA, United States.
' Wrote:Okey it seems everyone loves it and respects your work But this thing is not too correct. Its wery bad idea.
I tell you why...
I'm a proud citizen of the United States of America. I did not make this idea with bias towards nationality in any way whatsoever.
I fancy myself a historian in all aspects of the word, but specifically military and political history. The concept of putting the type of government Switzerland is in the Freelancer universe intrigues me because this universe is nothing like ours, and it would be very interesting to see how it could cope. To say nothing of the World War Two reference you so aptly pointed out, which is true, but had you read the topic you'd know that New Switzerland is anything but rich, and does not follow its history to the letter; if anything it's reversed.
Given the fact that the development team likes to steer the course of events in this mod, the impact of this miniature house is debatable: It may turn out to be no more special than the SCRA, which for all intents and purposes was a great idea which tied directly into Starlancer but was kept in a corner. What's more, they have at the moment the ability to deny this idea forthwith: I'm waiting on their input before starting even the unofficial version of this faction.
Your points have merit, but if you're interpreting this as a shallow attempt to cram a fanboy's nation into Freelancer for the purpose of simply including that nation I'm afraid you're rather mistaken. While "Switzerland" is involved, the heart of this idea is about the story and roleplay value it would add to the existing timeline, especially in Gallia, not to fly a white cross everywhere.
negative. you misunderstood me.
Hey please put down that fork.
I just said this thing look like what you just said to me.: people who wants new paraguay, new india new thisnthat ahh and do not forget the new guns n new ship and a new kingdom for theirselves.
Soz bro. its still a big NO.
Okey that it would fit your rp but why do you have to pick a country what is in the RL? Or whay cant you call it Zimmerland or somthing insted of New Switzerland ever herd of hurtin national feelings? hm? I guess not. Land of Freedom *cackles* sure.
(note: Rheinland- Germany, Bretonnia-England etcetc. your ,,spacecountry,, would be the only one with non-altered name and somthing what aims to be as similar as it could be to the RL 6.66 mod.
Again: if you could have New Switzerland others could have New Paraguay New Bosnia and New Guatemala. Or I could ask for guns named after me personally.
And about the tongue. Please do not try to say me what do YOU allow me to do my friend. It is a forum. Guess yar not familiar with the term Forum even if its an old term. And I did nothing wrong just tried to make you realize what are you up to and how does it looks like in the eyes of others than the previous posters who want swichblades as fighters.
So please read my lines again and think about why do you deserve an own country while others, ( lot more popluated nations, or even nations with even more colourful and interesting RP) could not even write their nationality as tag.
GL again. And please accept the critique if you accept thsoe kudos from others or you prove how pathetic this idea is no matter how cool it could be with some thinking instead of borrowin' from RL 6.66. But sure. open for good words closed for others. Pff... yeah typhical.
Cheers lad. Eeek. put down that fork and start thinkin' isntead.
*bows and disappears*
Edit after read Vogels post:
Vogel: Thanks lad its more like a polite and gentle answer. Okey I beleive you if you say it was not aimed to make your own nation comes to space-sorry that I misunderstood ya. Soz. Its just beeing the neighbour of Switzerland makes me see the things a bit different (yeah the RL 6.66 history is a bit hard to ignore if you see it too close). Some alternations to the name would be welcomed (again Rheinland:Germany etc) otherwise the base idea is great just like the work on it- but still have to wash those significant swiss lines I think: some tricks with the name and a few more shaders would be great. Thats my main point. Again good luck and sorry if I hurted any feelings.
Im from Hungary and those swiss guys ruined our history several times in the past. So if someone it was me who was blinded by false national-selfconciusness. Or whatever.
Apologise
If I renamed it "Geneva" it'd still be an obvious Swiss reference in order to fit into the history I created for it. If I remove all Swiss references entirely it undermines the reasoning behind its existence as an enclave in Gallia with limited resources and political power, an "underdog state", which is the entire reasoning behind the roleplay value. If other groups made anything along these lines it seems to me they would be shot down on principle; the only exceptions are the vanilla nations, which are still rather blunt and obviously nation-based.
Also, if it is true that others have had "more colorful and interesting RP" than this and were shot down previously then so be it, this one will be too, but by the Development Team and Igiss due to its impact on their vision of the story, not because it is a broken idea in of itself; I would prefer to think that it is not. It may not be perfect but it is hardly a "switzerlandlol" idea.
I accept your critique for what it is: A critique. But as it stands, its future is in neither of our hands.
ney. my line of tha more colourful thing was a bit overrated. I think this thing could be really good idea and good proposal. A good idea and a good job. It seems I misunderstood it and I could imagine that I was blinded by the name and the facts what happened in the RL history by swiss comrades. So that renaming would be...great.
But any shader would be awesome. Even the renaming to Geneva. It would help us (me?) accept the fact that this thing is fiction and you used Switzerland as a reference to create an alternative thing to the game. Even if you leave there those references. I think not the idea or the thing what is bad but the fact that it tries to be an existing nation while other nations got redlamp.
Its just easier to accept thisway without becomin angry that others cannot fly eir own nations's colors.