' Wrote:@ ExMortis: I get you man. But even if you look at indians there weren't any "indie indians" because they would quickly get forced to join one or other side and would get dragged in some problems. Thing here is that people were actively refusing to do their side of the roleplay. I know, Corsair side of roleplay is easy - be a d*ck towards others. Zoner side is bit harder. But that does not mean you should not roleplay it out and supply people with food.
If Resigner is still here he can tell you, or Consortium can tell you how things functioned (for a while) when Zoners were bringing weekly quotas of food and how OPG gave actual protection to factioned Zoners and their convoys.
I hear ya. Regarding the Indians, what you did have though were many different tribes that could be considered indies unto themselves depending on their size. You have your larger tribes that were extremely hostile and violent, then you got the smaller ones that sought peace instead of war.
About the RP shipments, I know that OSI did one convoy to Crete at least once a week. But for us, and I'm sure as is with most people, its considered that the NPC's are the ones that make the majority of the InRP runs. Like players can't be there all the time to supply and entire planet with food, so thats where the NPC's step in. The Players are supposed to be considered the Elites of their factions, while NPC's are the grunts, so to speak.
And the little time I knew Reis, he would tell us about this.
EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT
' Wrote:Basically the thing that pisses me off the most is that it seems that every faction in this game has taken responsibility to some extent about their indies. Why are zoners not only refusing it but actually making a "valid" excuses why shouldn't they do that.
I should really read everything before posting hehe. Anyways, the reason being this last part is because of what I was talking about. I'm sure that OSI would take responsibility if someone was RP'ing and Independant OSI person, dittos for TAZ, and dittos for those Butt Tag peoples:P. But really the "Zoner" officials arn't taking responsibility because they are not even close to being the same factions/ideals. Its completely different from a Liberty Navy indy doing stupid stuff. Zoners are not all the same thing.
I am [The_Angels]Mortis. If you need help regarding the rules, the game, or just need someone to talk to, feel free to contact me on skype or PM me.
@Ivan: ( well, obviously, as you re the only one that is addressed here anyway )
- answer me that question. - why are zoners meant to deliver food to crete - and not corsairs meant to take their own freighters/pirate trains - which are meant to be used for short distance shipments - and go shop at fp9 for food themselves.
when you say "you have neglected your roleplay" - where does it say that is is our roleplay in the first place.
in all the time, no one really ever answered that one. - a freeport is a hub for people to visit, it is not a delivery service.
when its about something being wrong with the zoner faction and how its led...
please be VERY clear / transparent
"lets just assume for a minute that no NPC faction had ANY official faction attached to it. and YOU are the one chosen to build an official zoner faction. - how will it look like?"
i d like to know that one. - keep it simple, and i ll play devils advocate and will try to crush your concept - as that is what players try ( it may be the nature of some - it is like crushing the other kids sand castle )
ok. And I'll talk about things that are bit older than recent happenings.
OPG was taking things from freeport and delivering to Crete for a full week. Roleplay standards were much lower then and no one cared for some things to full detail as much as I did. now there are people one can talk to.
Moving from that the situation was next:
Omegas are Corsair space when you ask Corsairs, and Corsair space is relatively safe to friends of Corsairs. Zoners were flying trough it with rather rude stances and weren't really giving us any cut of their profit. This was back in the day we got enough food from Junkers and some other factions.
OSI, C and one more zoner faction were flying trough the space and we decided at first to take cash from them, but taking cash sucked a lot and taking weekly cash (at it was happening at one point) was even more boring because it eliminates the thrill of the chase. So we decided we'll take cutts of whatever they bring trough our space.
Since we started taking cuts (we were entitled to them in our own opinion [it's Roleplay] because we owned the system they traveled trough) they started to ask how can they trade fully. And we have decided they can trade freely and fully if some weekly quotas are met.
Met quotas were met by official factions but indies were in trouble. As we let go official factions fully we started to hunt indies with more zeal. Indies didn't decide to negotiate they decided to hunt us with their Order carriers.
The deal was good and we were cooperating. hell i even did some runs with zoners on my ptrans and some zoners actually decided to tip me off about some military vehicle smugglers.
Jinx, Does this answer enough?
Basically we're back to the most basic resource- Food to Crete and Water / Oxygen back to Freeports. (Yes, they do not generate their own air or water)
You can always play the devil's advocate with me and prove my argument to be maybe invalid, or turn it around to "the space isn't Corsair's" but the fact remains that Zoners and Corsairs have been on good neutral terms or Fp5 and 9 wouldn't be where they are. Meaning Zoners did acknowledge omega 41 as Corsair land same as Omega 5 is half Hessian half Corsair space. It's not "free space" at all.
@ lou - keep in mind I have no Corsair char atm. My character is equally neutral to both sides now.
' Wrote:@ ExMortis: The problem are indies. In fact it seems that the accelerator to all madness are indies. I remember capital ships guarding freeports telling people not to fire at NPCS that are firing at them. That goes beyond roleplay to sadism.
Same with most of the reports I see these days about Zoner aggression. Most of these actions are done under the cover of no official faction backing the actions. That cannot work. There should be someone responsible, or everyone should be responsible. I think the second thing is happening because the first thing isn't.
OMG EDITS GOT ME AGAINS!!!! Lol...
Anyways, We've tried this. To control the Indies into doing whats best for zoners as a whole. Some listened, many didn't and still don't. I believe it will honestly need to take the Admins saying "[Insert Faction] Has control on all Zoners, You indies will listen to them jsut like the LNS secondaries listen to the [LN] boys/girls". Anyhting short of that will not get those indies to comply.
I am [The_Angels]Mortis. If you need help regarding the rules, the game, or just need someone to talk to, feel free to contact me on skype or PM me.
@ Exmortis - maybe it's time to agree on that and when all official factions agree you can (combined with some indies) send a petition to admins. OR:
to be responsible for a zoner you do not have to actually be good with that zoner.
For example if a Kishiro indie started up now and started to create mess to GMG (although I have no idea with what) - I do not have to have obedience of that kishiro indie to strike him down with all the force I have.
Domination can be set. If you use 50% of the zeal you are using now to crush Corsairs you would have a situation you could be proud of.
Well, i was walking about the idea to destroy the Zoner IFF, instead of that make Freeport 1 '¢ Freeport 2 '¢ Freeport 4 '¢ Freeport 5 '¢ Freeport 6 '¢ Freeport 7 '¢ Freeport 9 '¢ Freeport 10 '¢ Freeport 11 '¢ Freeport 14 '¢ Freeport XV IFFs for all freeports. So, the reputation can be adjustable on them. Corsairs could be hostile to theta fp, friendly to fp5, neutral to some, etc. Also it will be showing from what freeport that zoner ship from.
no - that doesn t answer it enough - actually it doesn t answer anything i asked.
it only describes a player deal of a situation that appeared for a short time ( very very short time ) considering the very long existance of zoners and corsairs in the same space.
who s space is who s is something that cannot be answered. - when you ask the corsairs, they say "the omegas are ours" - when you ask zoners you may hear "space is space, and belongs to no one" - or if you meet someone that abides to the NFZ concepts he might say "there is a safety perimeter around stations, but other than that - the stronger one rules, no matter who that is"
but expecting the zoners to deliver food to crete - while totally refusing to go and buy it yourself ( while pointing out that zoners refused their RP deal with the OPG ( who are not existant anymore ) - due to better profits elsewhere ) means you are arguing on a different level of roleplay / gameplay.
you had a deal with zoners - not all, some! - and those zoners might have failed to meet your expectations ( provided the deal persists beyond the existance of the OPG anyway ) - some zoners however never signed that deal with the OPG - and were accordingly taxed anyway - some payed up when caught, some tried to wiggle out, some were destroyed.
but the point is - what you point out is not the lore of "zoners" to deliver food to crete.
the agreement was made on what unselie once pointed out as "we are a faction, we are more powerful and can own you any time, so you do as we tell you or we will make your life a living hell" ( he didn t say it in such colourful tones but rather bluntly - but i m sure you remember )
arguing "now" that zoners refuse their roleplay is somewhat strange, seeing that the only parties that still exist from that deal are the TAZ and the OSI, the ZTC and the OPG having vanished.
so from that point of view ( and it but a point of view - just like yours ) - how can we say that corsairs don t buy their food, but expect zoners to deliver it? - especially when it was asked by factions that were not part of that deal in the first place anyway. - people mistake "official lore" with "a deal between players - which does NOT include ALL the players of the entire faction".
FP9 exists FOR the corsairs... just as you build a supermarket near a residential area. - now, when the residents revolt due to the high prices - they have two choices. they can force the supermarket to shut its doors - hoping desperately for a cheaper one.... or they decide to go to a cheaper supermarket that is further away. option 1 can include to grab the pitchforks and burn the supermarket down... the effect is that it is highly unlikely that another supermarket will allow these residents to shop in a similar supermarket of the same brand ever again.
option 2 however is the "soft" option. - sadly though - since FP9 does not rise or fall with the profit it makes, it does not care if you shop there or not. and before you say "how unfair is it when its not RPed.... " - keep in mind that you profit from the same mechanics... crete works, no matter of you bring food and water to it!
oh - and you haven t described me your utopian concept for YOUR zoner faction. - one that works from your point of view. ( and i am genuinly interested in it - cause we try to better ourselves by applying multiple perspectives to a factions traits and ways )
Hm. Doesn't answer anything...
Ok let's try to put it in a better picture.
I am talking about omega zoners only because this is where the problems escalated.
If Corsairs were taking their own food now, they would also be plundering all the Zoner ships that pass trough that area and take the percentage of their goods for Crete. Why, well you said it quoting someone else - Corsairs own that space because they have better guns.
You can argue the fact that it is not true or that it is true, but freeport 5 was built with Corsair permission. So was freeport 9.
Moving from that to the utopian view of the Zoners:
It is rather simple. Zoners should divide into "tribes" if you want to call them like that. So the Zoners operating in Taus do not have to suffer any consequences for actions done by Zoners operating in Omegas.
All of them do not have to suffer consequences from actions done from zoners on Gran Canaria. Take leader from each of the faction and put them together in a council.
![[Image: .png]](http://ultrarandomization.com/view/2095/.png)
![[Image: just_a_signature_by_sjrarj-d63yjsx.png]](https://img00.deviantart.net/ca73/i/2013/123/e/a/just_a_signature_by_sjrarj-d63yjsx.png)
![[Image: omgsig.png]](http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/3852/omgsig.png)
![[Image: bhglogo.png]](https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ff494/Ilya_Gorunov/bhglogo.png)