' Wrote:the Mollies were BMM defectors weren't they, and the Order is from Liberty, so I do not see why I can't have a Corsair who is rebelling.
Because you're alone. This is not a 'Movement' or 'Rebellion' when it only has One member (Or one Group of members, i.e. Crew of one Cruiser or one Gunboat), and One-Man-Armies don't really work the way you're trying to make it work.
Don't defect with anything larger than a Gunboat, and get the holding Faction's ooRP approval to keep the Ship and Tech while using a Generic ID like Pirate or Freelancer.
Problem Solved.
<div align="right]You're now free to Q_Q about how Ruleplay is ruining your Roleplay.
In the case of The Seraphim or the Black Freighter, we havent recieved any 'requests' to review a defection. Both just went ahead and decided to shoot the faction to which they belong. I've seen this so many times, it became old about two years ago.
Therefore, the FR5s were designed to make you get rid of your ship and ID.
That's not hard to see, considering what happened.
If you really have a good reason to defect, you'll contact the official faction(s) of that NPC faction you're defecting away from, and present the case for it. If the reason is bulletproof, and the people you're dealing with are reasonable, I can't see them saying no. It helps that, if for example your character is defecting because of being treated badly, you have proof of this, and it's not petty issues trying to get that cool wraith in the LN, for example. You need to show a good understanding of the conditions in each faction (the one you're coming from, and the one you're going to) before it'll seriously be considered imo.
Defecting isn't meant to be easy. I thought that point was quite clear. Not everyone can be a defector, and I have a sneaky feeling that the SRP system would deny the vast majority of these requests for the reasons outlined above.
A "Corsair rebelling" shows a pretty huge lack of understanding of Corsair culture, which is why that happening requires a concrete foundation of roleplay reasoning. To be honest, Freelancers with a Corsair background is also a huge stretch for Corsair culture, but that isn't prevented by the rules, so there's not a lot we can do about it. Kinda same for the now five house militaries, mostly the LN, since they already have the HF and the Order, both of which are defector factions. Therefore the LN probably would've installed measures to curb all these defections. This, and other reasons relevant to specific house militaries, are often ignored by people wanting to defect.
It also helps if you know the faction leader on a personal level. Trust between friends is far easier than trust between strangers, which should be obvious to everyone here. Those who can't get what they want will call it bias, those who can will probably know they had to do a lot of work to gain that trust.
Oh, and there's the fact that most defectors do so with a big ship. That instantly puts a large amount of skepticism in most peoples' minds.
Quote:A "Corsair rebelling" shows a pretty huge lack of understanding of Corsair culture, which is why that happening requires a concrete foundation of roleplay reasoning. To be honest, Freelancers with a Corsair background is also a huge stretch for Corsair culture, but that isn't prevented by the rules, so there's not a lot we can do about it.
I have to disagree, due to recent events in Gamma. I'll be short.
Outcasts raid Gamma, we fight them off, a huge pile of them.
Then SCRA comes and we fight them, again. I'm there in my Titan all the time.
They go away.
One of the Corsair, from one of the factions, starts shooting my shield and says "He has cardamine!!!!".
I go like - Okay, I picked it up from some addicts...
He goes - Drop it now or you die!
I go - Well ease up on the tone.
And I, of course, don't want to RP a freakin' lapdog Corsair, so I don't listen to a guy who's threatening me.
I don't want to drop it to him, I'm not a smuggler for god sake. I want to destroy it on my own.
And while I'm trying to explain myself, a Capital ship starts shooting at me with all of it's guns.
Next moment, I have 5 Corsairs on my tail while I'm fleeing to Crete.
So, all of them just forgot I fought with them for 2 hours, and just wanted to label me as a traitor and kill me.
All in all, that's the only time I -ever- had a really good reason to defect.
The only reason I didn't is because it's my first char on Disco, and I ain't going to leave just because of some trigger-happy-faction morons.
But all in all, if I can understand someone defecting, it would be a Corsair. And not because of RP, but because of true events that go on in Omicron Gamma.
A true, proud, Corsair would rather go live on his own then be treated like that.
Corsair defecting to Outcast side is another thing, and that's what I can't see happening, unless a really good RP reason is given (like, being addicted to Cardamine somehow).
*I don't even know if I'm allowed to write things in here, so excuse me if I'm not. Just wanted to say a thing or two!*
Lucendez Wrote:
It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.
' Wrote:If you really have a good reason to defect, you'll contact the official faction(s) of that NPC faction you're defecting away from, and present the case for it. If the reason is bulletproof, and the people you're dealing with are reasonable, I can't see them saying no. It helps that, if for example your character is defecting because of being treated badly, you have proof of this, and it's not petty issues trying to get that cool wraith in the LN, for example. You need to show a good understanding of the conditions in each faction (the one you're coming from, and the one you're going to) before it'll seriously be considered imo.
And what happens after you have invested a lot of time and effort into your character, struggled to make your way from newbie up to a multi-million credit ship and equipment and then find that things just aren't working, that you and your faction are at odds? You say you're taking your ship and leaving and they say no, you can't use our tech anymore? Are you just supposed to just shrug and write off the 6 months you may have invested in it, or say goodbye and fly to another area of space and try to continue RPing 'your baby' while you wait to be sanctioned and lose it all anyway?
Now, while I would not think to contend with the will of the Admins, I was under the impression IDs were at least somewhat OORP and/or metagaming items. While they dictate what equipment can be used, they should not dictate the limits of Roleplay.
Now, if the character (in this case, The Seraphim) has a good and legitimate RP reason to go rogue and attack other Corsairs, should they not be able to do so? Granted, if every lolwut and imbecile attempted to do this, I might see the problem, but lolwuts and imbeciles generally do not have the skill to properly RP such a thing and are dealt with accordingly.
Perhaps I do not fully or properly understand the ID system and, if this is the case, please enlighten me. Otherwise, I leave it to you to post your questions, comments, and criticisms.
As always, thank you for your time and consideration,
Quantum Psychosis
Well, dude, I've seen other corsairs do it, deflect that is. Yes, I've seen them pew-ta-pew other corsairs in Gamma and yes, noone got them reported. I saw them kill someone, I killed them, end of story, everyone was happy. Perhaps talk to the admin team about a SRP allowing you to do so. Also if you've deflected, you might just change ID and IFF and ask the elders to give you the ship and guns OORP'ly for you to continue the roleplay? That's my 2 cents.
Yes, but I can't keep the cruiser that way, its obviously not for shooting up the place as I have already stated, I havn't even used it that much. Yes, the GB I might be able to get permission for, but I can't have a cruiser with a generic ID, so I am stuck with using the corsair Guard ID due to SRPs being closed. Anyway, im going to ask some admins for help with this matter.
' Wrote:I have to disagree, due to recent events in Gamma. I'll be short.
Outcasts raid Gamma, we fight them off, a huge pile of them.
Then SCRA comes and we fight them, again. I'm there in my Titan all the time.
They go away.
One of the Corsair, from one of the factions, starts shooting my shield and says "He has cardamine!!!!".
I go like - Okay, I picked it up from some addicts...
He goes - Drop it now or you die!
I go - Well ease up on the tone.
And I, of course, don't want to RP a freakin' lapdog Corsair, so I don't listen to a guy who's threatening me.
I don't want to drop it to him, I'm not a smuggler for god sake. I want to destroy it on my own.
And while I'm trying to explain myself, a Capital ship starts shooting at me with all of it's guns.
Next moment, I have 5 Corsairs on my tail while I'm fleeing to Crete.
So, all of them just forgot I fought with them for 2 hours, and just wanted to label me as a traitor and kill me.
All in all, that's the only time I -ever- had a really good reason to defect.
The only reason I didn't is because it's my first char on Disco, and I ain't going to leave just because of some trigger-happy-faction morons.
But all in all, if I can understand someone defecting, it would be a Corsair. And not because of RP, but because of true events that go on in Omicron Gamma.
A true, proud, Corsair would rather go live on his own then be treated like that.
Corsair defecting to Outcast side is another thing, and that's what I can't see happening, unless a really good RP reason is given (like, being addicted to Cardamine somehow).
*I don't even know if I'm allowed to write things in here, so excuse me if I'm not. Just wanted to say a thing or two!*
Those are out of roleplay events that shouldn't happen. They do, because a lot of people who play Corsairs are, or were, mentally challenged.
Furthermore, you simply dismiss the tight familial bonds that Corsairs have, and the strong identity that they have with their civilisation. Everyone has met an idiot of their own nationality, but is that a reason to forget what country you're from? Furthermore, one as isolationist as the Corsairs?
The reasons you give do not cover the background on the character or why he would defect, given familial and social pressures. Furthermore, people have fights, but its extremely rare to disown your country because you had a punch up in the bar.
I do not accept that is a valid argument for a defection, Chopper. Not from any faction, not least the Corsairs.
podgie_bear Wrote:And what happens after you have invested a lot of time and effort into your character, struggled to make your way from newbie up to a multi-million credit ship and equipment and then find that things just aren't working, that you and your faction are at odds? You say you're taking your ship and leaving and they say no, you can't use our tech anymore? Are you just supposed to just shrug and write off the 6 months you may have invested in it, or say goodbye and fly to another area of space and try to continue RPing 'your baby' while you wait to be sanctioned and lose it all anyway?
You're meant to work with the official faction(s), not against them. If you're not willing to do this, then you obviously dont value your six months of time investment over whatever your pride could possibly suffer. Hence, if you're not willing to work with the official faction, in the vast majority of cases, yes, you just wasted a lot of your time. The choice to interact with an official faction isn't with the faction leader. The onus is on someone who wants something to go out there and get it, not someone else to give it to them on a silver plate.
A lot of OORP interaction is needed to make an RP defection proceed smoothly. This difficulty is a substitute for the actual difficulty of a real defection, which tend to be meticulously planned, extremely rare, and usually go wrong anyway. Take your pick.
Furthermore, I dont know any official faction leaders who wont hear out a request for a defection.
And you would be right, if it was an -idiot-.
It was an official faction, one of the older ones.
And they were acting, by their words, on the behalf of elders.
So, it's not really the same.
I know what you mean, but this event was -not- some idiotic Corsair indie shooting at me.
And don't worry, as I said, I'd never defect, but I could understand someone who would find himself in the similar situation.
Of course, if he had a long history as a Corsair, not just make a char and defect.
Also, that Character is a Corsair for a very long time. Was even decorated with something during Eta fights.
So, naturally, it should have a bit of pride.
Though I know elders wouldn't really support shooting me like that, they were doing it.
Don't get me wrong, I am a big supporter of anti-defecting system.
Just saying that if the whole nation gives up on you, you should be able to give up on them too.
Lucendez Wrote:
It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.
' Wrote:And you would be right, if it was an -idiot-.
It was an official faction, one of the older ones.
And they were acting, by their words, on the behalf of elders.
So, it's not really the same.
I know what you mean, but this event was -not- some idiotic Corsair indie shooting at me.
And don't worry, as I said, I'd never defect, but I could understand someone who would find himself in the similar situation.
Of course, if he had a long history as a Corsair, not just make a char and defect.
Also, that Character is a Corsair for a very long time. Was even decorated with something during Eta fights.
So, naturally, it should have a bit of pride.
Though I know elders wouldn't really support shooting me like that, they were doing it.
Don't get me wrong, I am a big supporter of anti-defecting system.
Just saying that if the whole nation gives up on you, you should be able to give up on them too.
Fair enough, point. I assumed it was a bunch of indies, if it was a faction (and if it was TBH...) then there was a serious problem.
In that position, I would've formally asked the Elders what was going on, and why such a shining example of a warrior was being treated like dirt, and not trusted to dispose of the filthy drug on his own. If the Elders then confirmed that they were shooting you for whatever reason (unlikely), then a defection could begin.
Quote:Of course, if he had a long history as a Corsair, not just make a char and defect.
Let me just highlight this again for everyone else.
Yep, you dont just make a character, wait a month, then defect.
Sure, a month is a long time for some people, but I dont think any faction leader is going to endorse a defection if your character is more or less new, which it would be.
For instance, with The_Black_Freighter:
All I saw was;
Dude with a Freelancer IFF/Pirate ID wants a Corsair gunboat (in the tech request thread)
Pablo Moreno says no, and offers him to become a Corsair to keep the gunboat
He takes the chance to get a Corsair IFF/ID
Little bit of time passes, he helps one of my characters out once
He defects
Sure, not everything has to be on the forum. If you could simply explain it, and answer criticisms in skype or something, that would be fine too. If the basis of the story makes sense, then chances are, the rest of the story will make sense too.
Its harder for a character who has existed a long time to defect, since he or she will be leaving behind more than just a tag and ID. This makes the reasons for the defection of a longer existing character better, most of the time at least.
' Wrote:You're meant to work with the official faction(s), not against them. If you're not willing to do this, then you obviously dont value your six months of time investment over whatever your pride could possibly suffer. Hence, if you're not willing to work with the official faction, in the vast majority of cases, yes, you just wasted a lot of your time. The choice to interact with an official faction isn't with the faction leader. The onus is on someone who wants something to go out there and get it, not someone else to give it to them on a silver plate.
This should be sticky'd as a warning to anyone who is considering joining a faction.
DON'T ..... Join with a character you have already developed.
DON'T ..... Register your good characters with your new faction until you are sure you are happy there.
DO .......... Bear in mind that a faction is individual members that you may not get along with.
DO .......... Start a new character that you won't mind deleting if things don't work out the way you hoped!
REMEMBER ..... That you don't have to join an official faction to use the ID!