Having read the posts above, all I have to say is: "Sina has a point" (or, to put it short, "Signed"). Although I rarely act that harsh, when I'm on my =LSF= chars (note: acting harsh is indeed perfectly IRP for lawful factions, especially for the Navy and the LSF in Liberty), I might even reconsider my own actions.
Now this
Quote:The sad thing is, most lawful/Unlawful RP ends with the Lawfuls pewing the Unlawfuls, most people fail to develop it further than break law > stop lawbreaker > kill lawbreaker.
I'm getting more and more inclined to act that way (after all, that's what the lawfuls are supposed to do IRP; maybe with warning shots or something like that), especially when it involves Z-21/Alaska intrusions. Of course, I'd appreciate unique RP, but many lawbreakers behave described in the next quote:
Quote:Many pirates/criminals are looking to PvP by staying in place when are ordered to disappear.
In that case I just give them what they want (PvP), and usually I duel them (this is more for the sake of fair play, since IRP they'd send a team after a pirate). However, if someone has hostages, the situation may change...
To Elvin: Yes, if the situation like this happened (hypothetically), I'd act a bit differently and give you some time to explain yourself.
As for your phrase
Quote:That is just NOT right. And definitely not RP.
That might be not right, but it -is- RP (surely not the best you can have on Discovery, but still RP). Since you -did- voilate the law and -didn't- comply with orders. And my opinion is that on this server PvP is just a part of RP (unless we understand the term "RP" differently).
Now to reply to Andrzej:
Quote:When there is a conflict of planned RP-setups, the other guy should be flexible, because you won't.
Nobody should be flexible, everyone should act as he would act. If you refer to the case when "Someone decides to take down the trade lane for joke's sake", then it -is- lawfuls' RP to detain the violator.
Quote:Resolving this conflict using OORP thing such as being a more PvP-skilled player is ok. Resolving it through superior firepower is ok.
Being skilled in PvP is not OoRP in my opinion (since I honestly think that PvP is a part of RP; in [LN]'s case it is SURELY NOT OoRP, since they are supposed to be skilled pilots). PvP abilities count as pilot's skills. As for superior firepower... It's ok IRP, but many people try to avoid it (see the point above). From what I've seen, [LN] try to avoid it as well (and they do their best).
Quote:When you shoot somebody in-RP, it is because of actions->consequences. When somebody complains in-RP, it is not actions->consequences->more_consequences, it is whining and spoiling your fun.
I'll let this one for the others to judge. But I've never noticed someone saying "IPR complaint = whining".
P.S.: sorry for this wall of text, couldn't but post my opinion on the matter. So much for saying "Signed".
' Wrote:Postscriptum. Criminals IRL are always made of 100% pure, distilled innocence. Not surprisingly, they are exactly the same in-game. What did you expect? :-)
Not the kind that wield an arraw of militairy grade lethal power and would shoot down everyone looking at them funny. Everyone is a terrorist these days
Aaaalso. It's more like giving out a fair warning than telling everyone what they should do. We're telling them what they should expect if they come around trying to mess up our toko.
' Wrote:I mean the "drop your weapons" as a RL example of vocal interaction before simply opening fire
Look this way - we destroy the ship.
What happens - he losses cargo/ammo/regens and cannot enter same system.
What should happen - he would need to get new ship and stay at hospital for few hours /float to nearest station in pod/wait for someone to tractor (cloacked?) pod...
[LN] KoS hostile gunboats & above to have at least that system clear.
Our job is really harder than yours (pirates, smugglers, terrorists etc.).
We are tired of individuals telling "I am innocent" when we have evidence that could put for life in prison...
In the last two years I observed this. One of the main reasons of forced RP and following Q_Q is because there is no after effects of any rp in game, good or bad. Not being dynamic limits the players "consequence" acknowledgement and ends up as a weirdo thingy.
Everything we do in RL has a consequence. We should increase the consequences (game world changes etc as I stated in another topic) so that actually actions would mean anything and creates a "need for a second thought" before going into meta-power thingy or OORP cries.
' Wrote:Look this way - we destroy the ship.
What happens - he losses cargo/ammo/regens and cannot enter same system.
What should happen - he would need to get new ship and stay at hospital for few hours /float to nearest station in pod/wait for someone to tractor (cloacked?) pod...
[LN] KoS hostile gunboats & above to have at least that system clear.
Our job is really harder than yours (pirates, smugglers, terrorists etc.).
We are tired of individuals telling "I am innocent" when we have evidence that could put for life in prison...
If you have evidence on them, submit it to the criminal registry, then they have no excuse
' Wrote:To Elvin: Yes, if the situation like this happened (hypothetically), I'd act a bit differently and give you some time to explain yourself.
As for your phrase That might be not right, but it -is- RP (surely not the best you can have on Discovery, but still RP). Since you -did- voilate the law and -didn't- comply with orders. And my opinion is that on this server PvP is just a part of RP (unless we understand the term "RP" differently).
Well, the situation wasn't hypothetical, think I meantioned that. Altough it's a long time ago. But you can find identical ones almost every day, especially in those "less" busy hours.
Honestly... I disagree. Stopping someone who is perhaps "doubtfull" yet not running, and surely not dangerous to anyone, then counting exactly to 10 (to avoid rule-breaking situation, obviously) and start shooting, is not right, and even more, not RP. That's about as realistic as Policeman shooting someone to death on street right after asking "Was that a joint, what I saw in your pocket?".
There has to be some distinguishing done. There is a "slight" difference between mass murderer / pirate who killed sseveral pilots and is on the run, and someone lawfull, with no record, who is carriing extremely small amount of some kind of contraband, and is not even trying to run. Giving them both the same phrase and attacking...? That reduces Laws to "Do anything I don't like, you'll be killed 9.90 sec after we meet.". You have to agree that isn't... great.
I buy things I don't want to make an impression on people I don't like.
Well, I suppose I'd better voice an opinion here. Since the most concise criticism comes from Andrzej, that's the post which I am going to reply to. It sums up pretty much all the other posts in this thread.
' Wrote:So. Dumbing it down:
This is generally for the best.
' Wrote:- When there is a conflict of planned RP-setups, the other guy should be flexible, because you won't.
This was not the point. The problem is that the vast majority of people who pirate, tend to scream "OMG OMG PVPwhore" if a navy officer so much as looks at them funny for blasting a transport. This is not accepting the consequences of the roleplay situation you are putting yourself in.
I tend to give people as many chances as I humanly can to leave without getting shot, within the bounds of my roleplay remit as a liberty navy officer. Lets remember that if someone who is supposed to uphold the law lets all the criminals go without some form of penalty, then they are not doing their job, and would get fired.
Flexibility comes within the framework of archetypes created for our roleplay enjoyment.
' Wrote:- Resolving this conflict using OORP thing such as being a more PvP-skilled player is ok. Resolving it through superior firepower is ok.
The conflict is not born of differing roleplay setups. The RP conflict is created by one party breaking the law, and the other being obliged to uphold it. If the only available method of upholding the law is firepower, then how is it oorp to use it?
Skill in pvp is a roleplay matter as well. For example, how can you possibly roleplay some super-ace pilot if you lack the ability to back it up? Many of my character fly somewhere beneath my actual ability to fly a ship, and all of them fly in a style which suits their personality. David Hale for example is far more defensive and cautious than I naturally would be in a fight.
In short - combat is not oorp by nature, as you seem to be implying. Using force to come to a logical roleplay conclusion (a pirate suffering the consequences of their actions through arrest or violence, or the naval ship attempting to enforce consequences and failing to, either by the pirate fleeing, or destroying the naval ship, or talking their way out of the situation) is not an out of roleplay consideration.
' Wrote:- When you shoot somebody in-RP, it is because of actions->consequences. When somebody complains in-RP, it is not actions->consequences->more_consequences, it is whining and spoiling your fun.
The majority of complaints may start in RP, but end up as out of roleplay complaints. I could point to many many examples.
However, if someone complains of malpractice within the navy in roleplay, and provides the backing to do so, then we respond in RP.
' Wrote:This is how I did read it. Sorry. Too many "you must" and "you should".
English errors, or perhaps deliberately simplifying the english?
' Wrote:By the way. As players, we are equal. As characters, we are not. If you try to enforce your -as a player- RP-setup by your character having advantage over other characters, there is something wrong in it.
I don't believe Sina was attempting to lord it over anyone to my knowlege. The RP setup he presents is (with a few modifications in wording) rather neat. The intent of Sina's post was to stop the endless "Q_Q_Q_Q_Q_Q_Q_Q_Q_Q U SHOT ME" whinging which happens every time the navy fry a criminal.
I'll give you the honest truth here. Every time the [LN] blows someone up, for whatever reason, whatever the numbers on either side, I go and check the faction feedback thread for the guy erroneously yelling about an oorp gank. It's extremely tiring to think that a navy gunboat, dueling and killing an order gunboat in alaska after half an hour of search/you're in restricted space/please leave/whatever roleplay, can result in "// U GANKING LOLWUT! I HATE U NAVU!"