' Wrote:Don't fly solo against missile gunboats. Get two bombers, or a fighter and a bomber, and spam CDs to screw up his engine kills and make his missiles detonate around him, wasting his energy. Once his shields are down, he'll be bombing himself as you CD him.
see, there's always a counter to something =P
Instead of QQ'ing about it, find out what the counter is and profit.
But... now that I know this, I'll be a little more careful once I use my 'missileboat' so that the tactic isnt used as effectively against me :D
...the zoner gunboat is meant to be like that.... a medium sized transport with something like 750 or 1k cargo, enough to supply basicly any spacestation the zoners have. armoured well enough to be protected from anyone foolish enough to attack it - well armed enough to make it painful for any attacker.
I agree with Blunt. If we encounter a missile gunboat we simply bring two bombers and a fighter and dedicate all of our effort to killing it, no matter what else might be in the area shooting at us.
Though watch out! If he manages to land two hits you'll be shy a bomber and have to run! So it's usually safer to bring three bombers and a fighter or two.
When the enemy brings two, we simply counter by bringing four bombers and two fighters! Every now and then they might bring as many as five, but we simply counter by bringing 10 bombers and five fighters. Of course to be safe you'll want your insurance policy so it's safer to bring along at least 15 bombers and ten fighters.
In a world where many are crying out for a reduction of caps and a renisance of fighter craft, seems there's just as many going "muahahaha" in the shadows and loading up for a quick killing spree.
Also, Tenacity, I'm no detective but there seems to be a strange connection between your "Best anti-fighter setup/I want a Zoner gunboat/a gunboat should be able to kill every fighter it meets 100% of the time" threads.
Quote:I agree with Blunt. If we encounter a missile gunboat we simply bring two bombers and a fighter and dedicate all of our effort to killing it, no matter what else might be in the area shooting at us.
Though watch out! If he manages to land two hits you'll be shy a bomber and have to run! So it's usually safer to bring three bombers and a fighter or two.
When the enemy brings two, we simply counter by bringing four bombers and two fighters! Every now and then they might bring as many as five, but we simply counter by bringing 10 bombers and five fighters. Of course to be safe you'll want your insurance policy so it's safer to bring along at least 15 bombers and ten fighters.
or you could bring one gunboat/cruiser with a proper loadout for killing missileboats.
Oh wait, you're a xeno... you cant afford caps... well, you chose the faction.
Quote:Also, Tenacity, I'm no detective but there seems to be a strange connection between your "Best anti-fighter setup/I want a Zoner gunboat/a gunboat should be able to kill every fighter it meets 100% of the time" threads.
Can you blame someone for wanting his preferred ship type to be a little more effective in pvp? Are you not claiming to want the same thing in most of your posts?
i am really happy that you like the zoner gunboat much, seriously. - but you must understand that the zoners are not a fighting faction. - their interest is not to overwhelm others, but to be among themselves, - protected. they live their ways - and they chose a living that is quite on the edge of a knife. - they must never make a false step or they might trip and fall, - and that could very easily become a very painful mistake.
now the concept of the gunboat was never a ship that was able to go one on one against another gunboat, since gunboats are mostly purely military ships. - since the zoners are not a military faction, but have a great understanding of it - and shipbuilding, they need a ship that serves their purpose.
they want to trade, sometimes smuggle - or just explore and travel. - for that, you need cargo, you need a small size ( untill now, they make mostly use of the dromedary ) and you need teeth. - but you don t need teeth to bite, - you need them to show them to others.
the concept is just like the juggernaut. - its not meant to fight, allthough it can - and that pretty well... but the concept of that ship is to be there and tell others that "it could be painful to go for it, more painful than its worth". the zoner gunboat is meant to be like that.... a medium sized transport with something like 750 or 1k cargo, enough to supply basicly any spacestation the zoners have. armoured well enough to be protected from anyone foolish enough to attack it - well armed enough to make it painful for any attacker.
the idea is not to kill, but to scare. - when i pirate sees a zoner gunboat and a transport, he ll go for the transport. when he attacked a zoner gunboat once, he should think twice the next time he goes for it. - the ship is build to bite back while it retreats. four gunboat turrets - thats as many as the kusari gunboat, and thats a military vessel. furthermore, 4 gunboat turrets that are build on one line, making it more precise to shoot ( well, thats just a minor benefit ) - in addition, it ll have a minedropper - so it can be quite a pain for even bombers. bombers often joust a gunboat ( and i don t expect it to be on the less agile side - i suggested to igiss to give it a above average agility ) - when the gunboat leaves a few nuke mines in the path, it adds greatly to the defense.
but i have to admit, - this gunboat will not be able to win against any military gunboat, unless the competition involves bringing a certain amount of cargo so some point. - it will be a real good allround ship though. - defended enough so its not pirated for fun, armed enough so that it can fire back easily, agile enough to escape any situation.
don t use it the way you use a gunboat - think of it as an armoured transport in the borderworlds where the designers got carried away - and not of a gunboat with weak stats. and well, the concept was made for the peaceful zoners, not for the order. if i have had the order in mind, i would have made something with 8 turrets for sure, cause the only real threat the order faces is the scorpion gunboat from the nomads / wild with its 8 turrets.
anyway, i m not sure what stats legenations order gunboat will have. - but by the looks, its definitely on the bigger side, so maybe he gave it 8 turret hardpoints - i think it has no fore gun.
Not a fighting faction? Doesn't their Juggernaut have more armour than Corsair and OC Dreadnoughts? And the Zoner Destroyer does "pwn" in it's own right.
' Wrote:Not a fighting faction? Doesn't their Juggernaut have more armour than Corsair and OC Dreadnoughts? And the Zoner Destroyer does "pwn" in it's own right.
technically, zoners have no enemies other than nomads/phantoms/wilde.
Their warships are constructed to protect zoner systems and bases, not to go to blow people up (though they're abused plenty).
The story around my future ship though, is that it was zoner-designed, but purchased/obtained by the Order to use as a stealth-surveillance vessel.
' Wrote:When you have ammo you have to be carefull and concentrated when to fire which projectile.... and idea of making GB's missile ammo is fantastic! Now...GB missiles need maybe a bit nerfing (due to speed, Mjolnir posted this problem before) ...
But full missile loadouts... That thing i will never understand... only skill you need for that is finger pressing fire missiles button.. but that is just me...
The other day in NY there were Hackers (4 extraordinary pilots) owning all lawfuls and then 5 of Xenos came... it was fantastic fight (laggy as hell, though) but then LH gunship with missile loadout came.. and in 2 minutes he took down 4 eagles.... it makes you wander only one question... WHY?... It was balanced fight and then someone like that guy comes and ruins it completely!!! Very sad! But i bet he was happy and proud cause his skills in using missile GB took down 4 Eagles...
Thing that worries me is that i am seeing more and more Gbs with 4,5,6 or full missile loadout.... That is just wrong!! (IMO) And everybody constantly saying USE FIGHTERS; USE BOMBERS... some of us are and will continue to try...
Now about torpedoes... I am using Sunslayers on almost all of my fighters... Why? Cause when I fight any vanilla ship and i hit it on hull he is dead and when i am fighting and non-vanilla ship in 2-3 hits i strip down all of his guns... And that is why Torpedoes are useful .. just like mines!
EDIT: I am thinking about GB with 3 missile turrets and I am completley sure that is still way to much for 2,3 fighters to dodge... maybe less than 70 missiles in cargo space (due to their size)
Oh and btw I am not good pilot, just average... so sorry for posting here:P
Well, Skoko for starters you ARE a good pilot, don't be so bloody stupid.
I agree with everything you have posted here, ammo makes you be more careful with your projectiles, and then rather than spamming them endlessly into crowds of fighters, you might use some if you thought is was nessesary.
This would probably stop the missile spam that we see that takes the fun of the game away from fighter pilots, and Xenos in particular who have little to counter it with.
Second. GB missiles are, at the moment, the never ending source of fighter pwnage. You can't dodge them, so it completely negates your own skill as a fighter pilot, and you don't have to aim with them, which reduces the game to a button bash for the GB pilot.
Give them ammo and I think we might have some balance.
Plus. The missile GB which I have had most contact with (a LH GS with 6 missile turrets) strips your shield with one slavo, then kills you with the next. No matter how well you fly, not matter how much you dodge, you just die.
This GB was set up with THE EXPRESSED purpose of hunting Xenos. I got jumped by him when I was still flying a hawk for the XA, when I was on my own. In groups I know its possible to take it down with a lot of CD's, but all the same, If this thing turns up in the middle of a fight you might as well just sit still and await the nigh on certian explosion. You can run out of CD ammo, he can't run out of missile ammo. A bunch of eagles has almost no chance (vanilla) and bombers only stand much of one if that have CD's mounted.
Getting hit by 12 GB missiles in a very short space of time, them having ALREADY caused you to dump all your CM's isn't fun. It removes the fun from the game and reduces it to a pointless turkey shoot for the GB pilot, and an exercise in patience and calm for the fighter pilot.
' Wrote:Can you blame someone for wanting his preferred ship type to be a little more effective in pvp?
Yes. It's a game, the whole point is to have fun, the xenoes are severely handicapped as it is, considering the LNS and BHs matching each xeno fighter with a capital ship, and then you're throwing this balance even more in favour of the anti xenoes by strapping a complete missile setup. It's unfair and it's disgusting.
I myself have a missile only gunboat, the [OPG]Espada, but I never use it against player controlled ships, it was made to quickly finish missions for recruits, and it always will be. I could have ended countless fights by bringing it out, but I haven't, why? Cause I ain't an ass.
' Wrote:Yes. It's a game, the whole point is to have fun, the xenoes are severely handicapped as it is, considering the LNS and BHs matching each xeno fighter with a capital ship, and then you're throwing this balance even more in favour of the anti xenoes by strapping a complete missile setup. It's unfair and it's disgusting.
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