Judicial Order

[St.Denis]

We, the Judges, don't object to feedback whether it is positive or negative but in all fairness it would reasonable to expect this feedback to be in a non condescending/sarcastic mode.

If the way that a certain person 'pulled' apart our history was done in a helpful manner it would be received in better 'light'. He/she seems a very intelligent person and also very knowledgeable in the whole of FL Lore (I am afraid I don't know a fraction of the information that was said by this person and, being truthful, I wouldn't want to go into that much depth even to try and prove him/her wrong). But to stand there and basically ridicule (to even use lol etc) showed to me somebody who deems themselves superior and enjoys trying to show how clever he/she is. This person even went to the point of highlighting the spelling mistake of Bertonia instead of Bretonia. I wish i was as infallible as he/she appears to be.

To answer a few question.
1) What is our standing with Nomads. As far as I know Nomads are enemies to most people.

2) Sunday's Exercise. Where to start. We seem to get slated if we are seen to 'camp' at Newark and then if we end up somewhere else we seem to be in the wrong. In the military, as an exercise, a squad of troops are dropped in an unknown , to them, location and are given a time limit to get back to base. This was the scenario we used. On their way back certain set encounters were 'arranged'. These were on top of any that the other citizens of Sirius decided to 'throw' at them. They we assessed on how they coped/overcame these 'situations' and the success/failure of the Test.

3) it was suggested that we change our ID. What do you suggest? We have had to adjust ourselves quite a bit over the last year to try and achieve 'our aim'. We have been hamstrung by the FL ID in that we have had to sit like Lambs at a slaughter waiting for people to shoot us before we could retaliate. Our aim wasn't to become Mercenaries but that is what we have 'labelled' with. So to keep everybody else happy we have tried with some small success to get ourselves on the Bounty Boards. As for the fact of one person's Rep sheet being 'green' to Xeno's (if you look the LN and LPI were also 'green'). So that one person made a BIG mistake of not shooting Xenos (I find generally if the NPCs don't shoot me I don't shoot them!). So with that the Judges were not allowed on the Liberty BB (I am sure that it was just an excuse to keep us down once again).

4) No we are not at war with Rhienland, A couple of RNC ships feel the need to attack the Judges when they attack Liberty Space. 2 Judges even went to Rhienland as a mission to speak to the Authorities, The 2 same RNC ships attacked and destroyed the Judges (2 Cruisers vs 2 Eagles). Since then the Judges have declared them enemies and will attack them on sight. We will not attack any other RNC ship unless we are attacked first.

Just a parting few lines. I know some people don't like the thought of using RL situations in FL but here goes.

What is the purpose of the United Nations? Where are their Headquarters? Do they ever get involved in conflicts? Who are their Friends and Enemies?

This is where the Judges were trying (very unsuccessfully) to aim.
1) Be Neutral to everybody.
2) Help in conflicts by acting as mediators (read original Official Faction Request)
3) Unite the Houses.
4) Help Police Sirius (every Country in this world has its own Police Force) Who Police International Waters and under whose Authority?

But somehow this community are unwilling/cannot see what we are trying to achieve. We know it is impossible to achieve (so is what the UN tries to do) but this is a RP game and this is/was our RP.

As another Judge has asked, How does what we do hurt the rest of the community?
All of us are in other Factions and on a few SKYPE channels but as soon as we put on our uniforms we become the Devil Incarnate.

---

'I would like to be half as clever as some people like to believe they are'
Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person

[JudgeYohance]

Greetings everyone, as I am the one who wrote the current RP build and was the creator of the O-99 event a few of you are talking about I'd like to give a quick response and explanation on things. Since a few statements are in variant orders I am pulling the relevant quotes together so I can respond to them at one shot.

So to begin with, the O-99 event we ran.

"When someone bumped the CR| chat with "Loads of Judges in Cornado" I thought you might have been making that out-of-nowhere Judge shipyard or whatever your last request included. However, I found a few of you fighting a Brigand Eclipse, and obviously being a little confused was looking for an explanation. With a particularly impressive "Pirate shooting me for no reason", I decided to jump in anyway as the Brigand wasn't following my orders. When we eventually destroyed him in California, I asked again for any explanation but everyone ran off to Newark once again. Eventually I got a PM from a Senior Judge saying it was a training exercise where they had to travel from O-99 to New York, didn't really help much."

"I fail to see anything about your group's zone of influence. And since I've seen a handful of you guys in Omicron-99 the other day - I wondered what your true place is. Unless some IC infectees activated a Nomad Gate aboard the Newark, which collapsed in upon itself and dragged the whole station and nearby ships into Omicron-99 - I don't see any other reason for you being there.

On that note, what is your standing with the Nomads, since they aren't listed under hostile?"

"Well supposedly the promotion criteria for Cadets is to fly from O-99 to Newark before their camping-meter runs out. Not exactly sure of the RP behind throwing the new guys into the deep Omicrons, but it's a fair enough challenge ooRPly."

"Oh, and although I find that O99-journey a bit odd - I guess you're having your reasons for that 'Cadet-tradition'."

In reference to the events on Sunday, our cadets were being given a final exam. This was an internally scheduled event and we made arrangements within RP to have them dumped out there with the goal of trying to get home. Two Judges stayed with them to watch how they preformed and listened on there comm. channels to see how well they would act as a unit. Other vessels which within RP were hired, were sent after them with the goal of stopping them which is what I was in charge of. The randomness of the exam I personally found to be far more entertaining.

As for once things were in Cornado, that bomber actually was not linked to the exam at all. He attacked without RP the moment he encountered the cadets.

Summer you were informed of the basics of the situation in private so that the CR would not be freaked thinking it was an invasion and the cadets certainly appreciated getting more backup to knock that gent off them.

As to the question of Nomad diplomacy, in over a year we have honestly had no direct interaction with any nomads outside the occasional morph wondering into NY to which we have never fought with. We do not have a diplomacy listed for them because until we have an official relation, there is little need to list them otherwise.

Speaking on Diplomacy.

"How exactly you intent to fulfill your goals using FL ID?
FL Id does not allow you to hut pirates without and bring order valid bounty. If you join a various of bounty boards in order to do so is then your roleplay any different then the various merc/bounty hunter groups?
According to your description the independent pirates are neutral to you as well, would you hunt indie pirates or you are hostile with rogues only? What about Outcasts and Lane Hackers since they are Rogue allies?
What you understand under civilian population? Corporations or freelancers and independent pilots?

"Apparently you guys are hostile to the Rheinland Lawfuls. You should edit your page to reflect this.

You should also find yourself a reason to shoot at Rheinland Lawfuls that is permissible by the server rules. As far as I can see, you have not joined any relevant bounty boards, nor have you been seen being hired to do so."

I think this is in part already answered as a few did find the boards we linked to and I know Cutter answered in part that prior to the boards we could do nothing.

The FL ID does not work well for us it is true. We were told that before we can discuss a new group ID we need to make official first so for now we are using what is available to us and yes it does hinder us a bit. We are working as best we can within the confines of what we have right now. For purposes of RP, I am trying to think of it as the rebuilding of our forces since the newest incarnation of the group.

Our hostility to the Rouges is actually not our doing, that was there choice. The primary faction without even the curtsey of telling us , put bounties on our heads. We were not even aware of it until the first ship came after us. Since we try to maintain a neutral stance even if it is a cold one with the other pirate groups, we single them out as hostile because of this. For the same reason we do not list the Reavers as directly hostile because they are simply mercs working off the bounty, if the bounty didn't exist, they would not have bothered us.

The issue with Rhineland is also there doing not ours and to be specific, it is not the entire force it is in fact two RNC pilots who attacked us on two separate occasions without cause or reason. We consider those two as hostile, the rest of the force as was stated numerous times to us by the primary RM, has no connection to there structure, we have no problem with directly. I will admit, within the confines of RP, I am baffled how the security force of Rhineland is not responsible for there own members actions and for that matter not answerable to the Primary military force but that is neither here nor there. For us, the only problem is those two RNC who seem content to without specific RP, murder anyone they see be it during incursions into enemy space or when we are visiting in Rhineland under the guise they have the authority to do so.

I think I have gotten to everyone except for the take apart on the RP story, if I missed you I apologize and will respond to anything else mentioned during the next run through.

Echo, lets get to your complaints.

"Nope. Security was handled solely by top Government forces. Liberty’s military forces, while they have undergone structural and organisational changes over the years, are essentially the same body ever since the SS Liberty landed on Planet New York. Private military forces don’t come into the equation here, and in the very early years anyway, there was no need for them."

You'll need to point out where it says this anywhere in any of the Liberty information charters for me but I will tell you what I read when writing.

LN founded in 230 A.S.

LPI founded 653 A.S.

LSF founded in 528 A.S.

As I stated in the RP, we WERE the security force handled and controlled directly by the government. There is no written RP I could find in Liberty's threads or in the Wiki that contests this. Your statement as it stands, is not anymore back then my writing an RP into a hole that does not exists. Thinking there was no need for any kind of security force in the early years of any of the groups founding strikes me as ridiculous at best. Even without contact with the other houses as of yet, you really think it was a perfect utopia without crime in the early years or that all space travel was government only? Even if that was the case, my writing us as the security force still gives us reason to be there.

"This was a top-secret project and security was not handled by a PMC."

Again, please read more carefully, the L.I.D.F. was not a PMC, they were Liberties controlled military group.

"There has never been any “multi-house defense force”. The Houses have always been too fractious and distant (initially) for such trust and organisation to be successfully executed.

Once again, local house government military forces oversee Jump Gate construction as they are all government purchases (not private). It would be a waste of money, and a potential breach in confidentiality, to hire external security on a construction site already being run externally."

Even today I can site where both PMCs and external government military's come in to oversee construction projects in other countries. You also skipped the part where Ageira Technologies is the one running this entire operation which was funded and created using technology controlled directly by the Liberty Government. Would it not make sense that Ageria would want and for that matter, must, use military security from there home government while they began building the gates in other houses to avoid other governments from getting access to the initial tech?

"Lolno. See the part where I’ve said the existence of your fictitious, miraculous justice-league PMC could not have formed given Sirius’ geopolitical history since colonisation."

No I don't since up to the point you are referring to, there has never been an inter-house war or rebellion and the majority of the major pirate groups do no exist yet.

"Not likely. The current Bounty Hunters Guild is the single largest private combat enterprise in Sirius, so it’s highly unlikely that you could be anywhere close to their size, particularly so early in Sirius’ history."

First, I don't recall anywhere in my writing claiming to be anything close to there size. Note I never state anywhere where we own a armada of cap ships like the current guild does. Also, pay close attention to the word you used which is "current". The time period you are now picking apart is 310 A.S. Over 500 years ago. Now while the BHG both NPC histories and Player faction have good written RP (At this point I would like to say I did try to read every faction's RP before I wrote this) they also have no date of founding or a timeline of their events and rise to current power. I took advantage of this when I wrote this part. If it doesn't work for you that is you prerogative by I tried to be very careful not to step on the toes of any established timelines within the lore of the server.

"No it wasn’t. In your own words, you did jack all except for protect construction sites, which as I said before, probably couldn’t have happened."

If you read the entire piece you are referring to, I would like you to note the high level of arrogance that I placed into the full statement. I am a long time fan of "The rise before the fall" of empires throughout history. Very shortly after this part where we are effectively claiming to be just short of gods among men, begins the decline and it comes down hard and fast. The jumpgates did reconnect humanity, if you had spent the last century being seen as the ones responsible for helping make that happen, you don't think arrogance would creep into your actions as well?

"A Blade Runner reference? Unoriginal.

Also, no, this is not possible. Only Ageira Technologies had the means to construct a Jump Gate – and they still do."

Actually Blade Runner stole the name before I did. Tannhauser dates back to the 12th century and was a poet. The name has been used several times since. I first heard it in the H.G. Wells book The Sleeper Awakes which came out in 1910 but you are right, I am stealing the name as well as I have always loved the name. Attacking me for a name though seems somewhat ridiculous though when almost every station and planet name was derived from the pre-existing ones form their old earth home but again, that is your choice.

"Highly unlikely. Each of the House Governments keeps their own secrets hidden away so it’s impossible for some PMC to have access to that kind of information. To this day, in fact, there are still certain historical documents that can only be found in only one House library.

The base’s secrecy is irrelevant when it contains nothing of value."

Your half right, I am sure the government keeps huge numbers of documents hidden away from the general public. That said how much information can you find with just a quick internet search? I see nothing wrong with a great library of knowledge. There is plenty of historical references for such a place throughout human history. Keeping it secret helps to protect it from those trying to destroy that knowledge. I have intentionally kept what was in the place vague as well as a few other items within the RP so that we can expand on them later via the use of server events.

"What’s “Bertonia”?

And of course Bretonia was not interested in an outside military force. None of the houses would have liked it. Including Liberty."

I'm willing to respond to actual points but trolling me on spelling....really?

Also, Liberties entire Police force is a PMC, you really want to use that reference? Early on it would make sense that while the military's were still forming that they would want/need outside the government help to maintain certain aspects of their security. I can reference any government in history for reasons on that one. From historical aspects, it makes sense, from an RP aspect, as their own military's are not that large or strong yet, outsourcing the help is not out of line.

" That’s a hilarious joke. Everyone knows that the Kusarians are extremely distrustful of outsiders and ban all non-Kusari PMCs from operating in their House."

We are talking pre-KNF when the what are now the Blood Dragons were the dominant power. The current government is highly distrustful, you are right. However, using the history of the people the government is based on and the in game RP, it is not completely out of the question that they would have been interested in the help.

I am playing with the RP a bit here I will admit that, but as the Blood Dragons pry themselves on the old codes, would they not see the reconnection of humanity as an honorable act? This is a minor connection I created as an excuse to be thrown out and also in preparation for a couple story ideas we are kicking around for the future.

"Once again, you are not the secret-awesome-protectors of Jump Gate technology and thus do not have the ability to make them “malfunction” at will."

You don't think the guards at the door would not have the keys to it? In game RP, the gates had to be unlocked before you could go through them by LPI, LSF, etc. The "malfunction" would be as easy as simply locking the gate code for a few minutes while "our computers are down, trying to rectify".

" Flocking to a PMC for knowledge. Riiiiiight…

Should have called your faction The Librarians – it would be more appropriate."

Again, people don't flock to ANY sub-groups even today for specific knowledge?

"Well, you never actually worked on the Valhalla Project.
Also, if you’re referring to the incident at the start of the vanilla Freelancer campaign – your date is about 100 years too early."

This is from the writing.

""The earliest traces of the Judges can be dated back to 122 A.S. in what was slowly becoming the Liberty Republic. Originally a local planetary police force formed to deal with problems in orbit of planets and later to oversee the security of the Valhalla Research operations, the organization would slowly develop into the underlining, if only temporary, military arm of Liberty.""

Yes we did and I matched the dates to Ageria's RP.

" The period between the end of the first Nomad war (depicted in the vanilla Freelancer campaign) and present-day Sirius is considered to be entirely documented by Discovery mod lore. Anything fictional you create here is not just inconceivable – it may be entirely impossible and never happened."

Where have I changed any lore of the Disco mod here? This is exactly what happened in the Disco world. The houses have been at near constant war, several new sub-factions have risen and everyone seems to be surrounded by enemies on all sides. All I did was state the obvious.

" Last time I checked, the major wars were Liberty-Rheinland and Bretonia-Kusari prior to the Gallic invasion. No others of such scale occurred."

Do I even need to real list all the power that has risen outside these groups? Rouges with Destroyer class ships, Red Hessians with Battleships, everyone with bombers and Gunboats, just to name a few. Now by RP, all these groups have gained more tech and are becoming even greater threats.

"
“… influence spanning both corporate and military assets.”
That last sentence doesn’t even make contextual sense. What are you trying to say? You had friends in the military and in corporations? That might be possible, but you wouldn’t actually own any assets in either camp, as you state that you are distinctly not one of either."

It means yes we have friends in both. Assets does not mean physical items and influence does not mean ownership......I honestly am not sure what was unclear on that.

" That’s a charming notion. Whose order are you trying to restore? There is no one single unifying objective of peace that is achievable in the Sirius sector – it is in constant flux politically and economically. There is no black and white."

For almost 3 centuries the houses maintained order with minimal pirate problems and no wars internally or externally. Your right there is no Black and White, but there was order and a relative peace.

" The Houses have never been truly united. The single most “unifying” moment was the day the Sleeper Ships left a certain moon of Jupiter. Your unification is a novel idea and likely impossible to reach. Some might call it noble."

This I agree with you in that it may be impossible to reach. If we can settle for an end to the wars and get the governments to focus on it's internal problems, that would be the beginning of a win though.

" You could start by abiding the Laws of Liberty at all times. Your faction doesn’t have a good record."

I can't answer this as I am not sure as to what you are referring to directly, among other reasons. I will say there were some problems that had to be dealt with beyond the RP of the game that have been since rectified.

" Friendly relationships with Gaians and Xenos? Whoops, looks like you were lying about being lawfully inclined. This is further evidence that you’re just using the Freelancer ID to have a convenient reputation. So much for the claims of “integrity” each Judge is supposed to uphold.


Addendum: The best part of all this? You're not really even a PMC in Liberty because you didn't qualify for Bounty Board registration."

An oversight since corrected, Restart freelancer gave certain reps and as I stated before, we don't want the Freelancer ID, we have to have the Freelancer ID at least for now.

I hope I did get to everything with everyone if not, I am sorry. If I did, please feel free to PM me and I will amend the current thread.

---

BIS Judge Core Info

BIS Judge Core Message Dump

BIS Judge Core Recruitment Thread

[Pancakes]

I know I am usually trollish, sarcastic and so on, but I mean the following with complete seriousness:
Take a moment to seat back and think how you, as a faction, contribute to the server's RP. You wish to be something new, yet you are like Bounty Hunters that simply following the laws to the latter and never going off by the in-game RP you're having, you don't enrich the environment with which you interact inRP, you mostly stand still silently and maybe give occasional comment to the passing-by.

So with all due, answer the question: What you bring new to the mod, contribute to its RP and the general environment that you deserve an official status?

Again, I am not trolling, but some factions are simply best left unofficial. You could be either, it's all matter of what you plan to do.

---

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

[Echo 7-7]

... Echo 7-7, whatever we did to you, your mother, or your dog, I'd like to say we're sorry, but I doubt you'd accept it, not that I can think of anything we actually did off-hand. As it stands, members of this communtiy have tried to drive us off several times, all failed. We're here, been here a year, and continue to grow.

It's nothing personal - I just have certain rigorous standards that I would expect factions to adhere to when applying for Official status.

The Judges may be growing... but are you growing into the community, or just among yourselves? The faction's previous actions have not endeared it to many people here. How other players see you is as important as how you see yourselves. You may be roleplaying, but with whom? Get out there, get away from Newark, and start showing the people of Sirius what you stand for.

What is the purpose of the United Nations? Where are their Headquarters? Do they ever get involved in conflicts? Who are their Friends and Enemies?

This is where the Judges were trying (very unsuccessfully) to aim.
1) Be Neutral to everybody.
2) Help in conflicts by acting as mediators (read original Official Faction Request)
3) Unite the Houses.
4) Help Police Sirius (every Country in this world has its own Police Force) Who Police International Waters and under whose Authority?

But somehow this community are unwilling/cannot see what we are trying to achieve. We know it is impossible to achieve (so is what the UN tries to do) but this is a RP game and this is/was our RP.

As another Judge has asked, How does what we do hurt the rest of the community?
All of us are in other Factions and on a few SKYPE channels but as soon as we put on our uniforms we become the Devil Incarnate.

In Freelancer, there is no "United Nations" - the original one broke down nearly 1000 years ago on Earth and nothing like it has since been seen.

Space is very, very different to planet Earth. Our home has certain definitive boundaries; its available area is absolutely finite. There is a clear boundary where international waters begin and where they end. However, no such distinction can exist in outer space. There simply exist regions which are controlled by certain factions, and others which are not controlled. It is statistically impossible for any one faction, or even race, to control the entirety of space - it is infinite. Therefore, to claim jurisdiction over "international waters" in space is to claim jurisdiction over the entirety of the galaxy - and such claims would turn you into nothing but the laughing stock of Sirius.

Let me clarify something; there is nothing "wrong" per se about the Judes' objectives. Mediating and unifying the Houses is noble, but Sirius is ruled by greedy people (some more subtly or metaphorically greedy than literally). It may not be achievable within the lifetimes of the current Judges. You may have picked the single most difficult to achieve objective imaginable.

That brings me on to another point: the name of your faction. You describe yourselves as if you were part of (Liberty's) judicial system - which you are not.

Prior to the bounty board, we were actually told we couldn't do anything, by Hale himself.

This sort of response is exactly what you will receive when you choose to be so presumptuous. Quite frankly, your name "The Judges" and your description of yourselves is incongruous with your objectives. Judgement is a punitive force enacted upon those who have broken the law, and if you want to pursue that type of activity, you need to integrate yourselves as a PMC through the Bounty system (which means re-applying for the Liberty board, for starters), or through integration into one of the three main branches of the Liberty Forces. Judge, jury, and executioner only exist in the courts on planets and bases. Out in space, those judgements and responsibilities are invested upon the Liberty Forces, thus making it (a) inappropriate and (b) not possible (due to ID mechanics) to play as an actual "judge" in space. If you want to retain the name but clearly act as a PMC, then take the name ironically - but make it clear that you're actually a PMC and not trying to masquerade as part of the judicial system.

Alternatively, if you're really interested in striving for peace through diplomacy, you may have to start by putting down your weapons and actually talking to people and factions. The choice is yours.

---

… Echo, lets get to your complaints.

"Nope. Security was handled solely by top Government forces. Liberty’s military forces, while they have undergone structural and organisational changes over the years, are essentially the same body ever since the SS Liberty landed on Planet New York. Private military forces don’t come into the equation here, and in the very early years anyway, there was no need for them."

You'll need to point out where it says this anywhere in any of the Liberty information charters for me but I will tell you what I read when writing.

LN founded in 230 A.S.

LPI founded 653 A.S.

LSF founded in 528 A.S.

As I stated in the RP, we WERE the security force handled and controlled directly by the government. There is no written RP I could find in Liberty's threads or in the Wiki that contests this. Your statement as it stands, is not anymore back then my writing an RP into a hole that does not exists. Thinking there was no need for any kind of security force in the early years of any of the groups founding strikes me as ridiculous at best. Even without contact with the other houses as of yet, you really think it was a perfect utopia without crime in the early years or that all space travel was government only? Even if that was the case, my writing us as the security force still gives us reason to be there.

Prior to the formation of the Liberty Navy, security in the Liberty colony was handled by members of the old Alliance military. In fact, from 0-20 A.S., Liberty was governed by the ranking military officer, before handing over to a civilian government.

"This was a top-secret project and security was not handled by a PMC."

Again, please read more carefully, the L.I.D.F. was not a PMC, they were Liberties controlled military group.

By looking further down through your faction history, it stands to reason that the 9th century Judges really have no connection with people this far back in Liberty’s history except for a borrowed name.

"There has never been any “multi-house defense force”. The Houses have always been too fractious and distant (initially) for such trust and organisation to be successfully executed.

Once again, local house government military forces oversee Jump Gate construction as they are all government purchases (not private). It would be a waste of money, and a potential breach in confidentiality, to hire external security on a construction site already being run externally.

Even today I can site where both PMCs and external government military's come in to oversee construction projects in other countries. You also skipped the part where Ageira Technologies is the one running this entire operation which was funded and created using technology controlled directly by the Liberty Government. Would it not make sense that Ageria would want and for that matter, must, use military security from there home government while they began building the gates in other houses to avoid other governments from getting access to the initial tech?

Do not make real-world comparisons to Freelancer. They are often vague and circumstantial at best.

The security of Gate/Lane technology is enforced procedurally, not just through military strength. No one person actually understands how it works together except for the top Ageira scientists. White Box technology aids in this security system. Furthermore, it has always been illegal (and remains to this day without explicit permission) to take military forces of any kind from one house into another, and can be considered an act of war.

"Lolno. See the part where I’ve said the existence of your fictitious, miraculous justice-league PMC could not have formed given Sirius’ geopolitical history since colonisation."

No I don't since up to the point you are referring to, there has never been an inter-house war or rebellion and the majority of the major pirate groups do no exist yet.

… therefore indicating that your group would serve no purpose.

"Not likely. The current Bounty Hunters Guild is the single largest private combat enterprise in Sirius, so it’s highly unlikely that you could be anywhere close to their size, particularly so early in Sirius’ history."

First, I don't recall anywhere in my writing claiming to be anything close to there size. Note I never state anywhere where we own a armada of cap ships like the current guild does. Also, pay close attention to the word you used which is "current". The time period you are now picking apart is 310 A.S. Over 500 years ago. Now while the BHG both NPC histories and Player faction have good written RP (At this point I would like to say I did try to read every faction's RP before I wrote this) they also have no date of founding or a timeline of their events and rise to current power. I took advantage of this when I wrote this part. If it doesn't work for you that is you prerogative by I tried to be very careful not to step on the toes of any established timelines within the lore of the server.

Be mindful that the Guild is not the Guild Core. They are two separate entitites.

The reason I suggest your faction could not have been so prominent, regardless of actual size, is that it would have been written about if it was.

"No it wasn’t. In your own words, you did jack all except for protect construction sites, which as I said before, probably couldn’t have happened."

If you read the entire piece you are referring to, I would like you to note the high level of arrogance that I placed into the full statement. I am a long time fan of "The rise before the fall" of empires throughout history. Very shortly after this part where we are effectively claiming to be just short of gods among men, begins the decline and it comes down hard and fast. The jumpgates did reconnect humanity, if you had spent the last century being seen as the ones responsible for helping make that happen, you don't think arrogance would creep into your actions as well?

The thing is, you were not responsible for the Jump Gates. Since when does a security guard look up at a construction site and say, “I helped build that tower”? You may be trying to capitalise on the limelight, but it feels far too egoistic to be acknowledgeable as believable roleplay.

"A Blade Runner reference? Unoriginal.

Also, no, this is not possible. Only Ageira Technologies had the means to construct a Jump Gate – and they still do."

Actually Blade Runner stole the name before I did. Tannhauser dates back to the 12th century and was a poet. The name has been used several times since. I first heard it in the H.G. Wells book The Sleeper Awakes which came out in 1910 but you are right, I am stealing the name as well as I have always loved the name. Attacking me for a name though seems somewhat ridiculous though when almost every station and planet name was derived from the pre-existing ones form their old earth home but again, that is your choice.

That small barb was actually a test of sorts. It’s not part of the actual critique.

"Highly unlikely. Each of the House Governments keeps their own secrets hidden away so it’s impossible for some PMC to have access to that kind of information. To this day, in fact, there are still certain historical documents that can only be found in only one House library.

The base’s secrecy is irrelevant when it contains nothing of value."

Your half right, I am sure the government keeps huge numbers of documents hidden away from the general public. That said how much information can you find with just a quick internet search? I see nothing wrong with a great library of knowledge. There is plenty of historical references for such a place throughout human history. Keeping it secret helps to protect it from those trying to destroy that knowledge. I have intentionally kept what was in the place vague as well as a few other items within the RP so that we can expand on them later via the use of server events.

If information can be found without leaving the comfort of your own home and neural-net terminal, then what’s the point of a library containing that information? You suggest that your library contains nothing more than can be found in any other library. Also, it would super uncool to try and say you had DK or other alien tech hidden in your library.

"What’s “Bertonia”?

And of course Bretonia was not interested in an outside military force. None of the houses would have liked it. Including Liberty."

I'm willing to respond to actual points but trolling me on spelling....really?

Also, Liberties entire Police force is a PMC, you really want to use that reference? Early on it would make sense that while the military's were still forming that they would want/need outside the government help to maintain certain aspects of their security. I can reference any government in history for reasons on that one. From historical aspects, it makes sense, from an RP aspect, as their own military's are not that large or strong yet, outsourcing the help is not out of line.

Don’t take it as trolling… consider it an opportunity to improve.

There is a big difference between the LPI and whatever you claim to have been. The LPI are Libertonian born-and-bred, and are a company under contractual obligation to the Government to provide peace-keeping and law enforcement services. A PMC, however, usually has a more combat/war orientated flavour to it. The main point, however, is not what you are, but who – which Government would trust such vital services to outsiders? More to the point, their own law enforcement and military services would have been established long before any Libertonian ships even arrived in the other colonies.

" That’s a hilarious joke. Everyone knows that the Kusarians are extremely distrustful of outsiders and ban all non-Kusari PMCs from operating in their House."

We are talking pre-KNF when the what are now the Blood Dragons were the dominant power. The current government is highly distrustful, you are right. However, using the history of the people the government is based on and the in game RP, it is not completely out of the question that they would have been interested in the help.

I am playing with the RP a bit here I will admit that, but as the Blood Dragons pry themselves on the old codes, would they not see the reconnection of humanity as an honorable act? This is a minor connection I created as an excuse to be thrown out and also in preparation for a couple story ideas we are kicking around for the future.

The Kusari mindset of being distrustful of foreigners runs far deeper than factional allegiance. It is pervasive throughout their culture.

I don’t know how “honourable” Kusari thought the Gate/Lane Network was at the time. Bear in mind that their Government had to hand over billions upon billions of credits, loaned from Interspace Commerce, over to Ageira just to have it constructed. It was a business deal only worthwhile in the most extreme long term. To this day, they are still annoyed by Ageira’s monopoly – Samura has been trying to crack the technology for many years, but has been unsuccessful.

"Once again, you are not the secret-awesome-protectors of Jump Gate technology and thus do not have the ability to make them “malfunction” at will."

You don't think the guards at the door would not have the keys to it? In game RP, the gates had to be unlocked before you could go through them by LPI, LSF, etc. The "malfunction" would be as easy as simply locking the gate code for a few minutes while "our computers are down, trying to rectify".

The ability to lock out Jump Gates would not be given to external or private military forces. That possibility is provided only to the Government and their agents.

" Flocking to a PMC for knowledge. Riiiiiight…

Should have called your faction The Librarians – it would be more appropriate."

Again, people don't flock to ANY sub-groups even today for specific knowledge?

You still fail to specify what kind of specialist knowledge your group could have legitimately obtained.

"Well, you never actually worked on the Valhalla Project.
Also, if you’re referring to the incident at the start of the vanilla Freelancer campaign – your date is about 100 years too early."

This is from the writing.

""The earliest traces of the Judges can be dated back to 122 A.S. in what was slowly becoming the Liberty Republic. Originally a local planetary police force formed to deal with problems in orbit of planets and later to oversee the security of the Valhalla Research operations, the organization would slowly develop into the underlining, if only temporary, military arm of Liberty.""

Yes we did and I matched the dates to Ageria's RP.

I would strongly advise you not to lecture me with regard to Ageira-related RP or lore. I ran the Ageira| official faction for two years and have read most things related to the faction. Including our own Wiki page.

Valhalla-related security was handled by:
- Valhalla personnel.
- Government personnel, and by extension the Navy.
- No one else.

" The period between the end of the first Nomad war (depicted in the vanilla Freelancer campaign) and present-day Sirius is considered to be entirely documented by Discovery mod lore. Anything fictional you create here is not just inconceivable – it may be entirely impossible and never happened."

Where have I changed any lore of the Disco mod here? This is exactly what happened in the Disco world. The houses have been at near constant war, several new sub-factions have risen and everyone seems to be surrounded by enemies on all sides. All I did was state the obvious.

This was not a specific comment – it was meant as a cautionary warning. It’s not so much that you’re changing existing lore, as you are trying to inject yourselves (inappropriately) into it.

" Last time I checked, the major wars were Liberty-Rheinland and Bretonia-Kusari prior to the Gallic invasion. No others of such scale occurred."

Do I even need to real list all the power that has risen outside these groups? Rouges with Destroyer class ships, Red Hessians with Battleships, everyone with bombers and Gunboats, just to name a few. Now by RP, all these groups have gained more tech and are becoming even greater threats.

Player activity does not, and will not ever, reflect a faction’s actual strength. The fact that Rogues (don’t forget to spell that one correctly next time) have Destroyers is nothing in the face of the Liberty Navy, the second biggest fleet in the whole of Sirius. Numbers by lore is also an important factor, as well as logistics.

"
“… influence spanning both corporate and military assets.”
That last sentence doesn’t even make contextual sense. What are you trying to say? You had friends in the military and in corporations? That might be possible, but you wouldn’t actually own any assets in either camp, as you state that you are distinctly not one of either."

It means yes we have friends in both. Assets does not mean physical items and influence does not mean ownership......I honestly am not sure what was unclear on that.

You wrote ambiguously, so I asked for an explanation. An asset is usually not something as wildly dynamic as a relationship – hence why it could have been written more clearly.

" That’s a charming notion. Whose order are you trying to restore? There is no one single unifying objective of peace that is achievable in the Sirius sector – it is in constant flux politically and economically. There is no black and white."

For almost 3 centuries the houses maintained order with minimal pirate problems and no wars internally or externally. Your right there is no Black and White, but there was order and a relative peace.

Yes – order maintained by four distinct and separate institutions. There is no way your tiny group could hope to match up to the performance of those behemoths.

" The Houses have never been truly united. The single most “unifying” moment was the day the Sleeper Ships left a certain moon of Jupiter. Your unification is a novel idea and likely impossible to reach. Some might call it noble."

This I agree with you in that it may be impossible to reach. If we can settle for an end to the wars and get the governments to focus on it's internal problems, that would be the beginning of a win though.

No comment as my quoted section is not a criticism (it was just a statement and opinion), and neither is your response.

" You could start by abiding the Laws of Liberty at all times. Your faction doesn’t have a good record."

I can't answer this as I am not sure as to what you are referring to directly, among other reasons. I will say there were some problems that had to be dealt with beyond the RP of the game that have been since rectified.

Using the space above Planet Manhattan as your personal training ground comes to mind. You were indescribably close to being FR5’d out of the House of Liberty, had the LPI not completely bungled the thread.

" Friendly relationships with Gaians and Xenos? Whoops, looks like you were lying about being lawfully inclined. This is further evidence that you’re just using the Freelancer ID to have a convenient reputation. So much for the claims of “integrity” each Judge is supposed to uphold.


Addendum: The best part of all this? You're not really even a PMC in Liberty because you didn't qualify for Bounty Board registration."

An oversight since corrected, Restart freelancer gave certain reps and as I stated before, we don't want the Freelancer ID, we have to have the Freelancer ID at least for now.

You were hammered there for the lack of care shown in submitting that rep-sheet. Everyone who applies for the Bounty Board is subject to the same standards, and the Judges are no exception – just relying on your word that you’re hostile to those pirates is not good enough. Also, it is actually a server rule violation to have a non-hostile reputation to the target of a Bounty Board for which you are trying to claim on.

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There was a sig here, once.

[GrnRaptor]

Minor annoyance. Please spell the word "Rogue" correctly both in your document and when you mention them in game. A bunch of outlaws and criminals are hostile to you, not a color. You have no idea how much I wince whenever I see someone shouting out about a hostile makeup color is attacking them.

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[Valhalla Sr.]

Minor annoyance. Please spell the word "Rogue" correctly both in your document and when you mention them in game. A bunch of outlaws and criminals are hostile to you, not a color. You have no idea how much I wince whenever I see someone shouting out about a hostile makeup color is attacking them.

Sir, you made my day! +31279361265391

As for the Judical Order.. Good luck, and if you seriously make it as an official faction, that means Karlotta will visit this thread.

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GFX Artist -|- Tyr Cromwell -|- The Commune -|- Star Wars The Old Republic Thread

[Judge Logan]

So far the current history of the Judges has mainly been one of defense from the “established” factions. Suppose, you consider a moment, as of this writing, the Judges have more contact hours than 88% of ALL the 54 factions on Disco, or a total of more than 4% of the COMBINED hours OF ALL 54 factions. This is NOT impressive as in fact there are five factions with greater contact hours than the Judges. These are facts that anyone with minimal math skills can easily verify. Not impressive, but worthy at least of notice, don’t you think?

This of course, in the eyes of many, was simply achieved by sitting at Newark while we were off darning socks or something. While some accept that simple premise, why else would we have a presence at Newark? What benefit do we get? Consider for example while LN numbers have dropped over past months, the Judges have risen. We do not hand out battle cruisers like candy, but we have grown now to 25 Judges. Many say we do nothing or do not understand RP or some other ubiquitous statement. I find these viewpoints at odds with the facts.

What possible attraction can there be to be a Judge? We are belittled for being at Newark, and then for being at Omicron 99. The lack of vision here is curious. Exactly where can we go and NOT make someone angry or upset? We are one of the few factions that have an actual training program where we train and also weed out candidates. Consider for a moment that of a group that does not accept everyone that comes in with a heartbeat, but is still growing. We have 25 Judges and had 22 candidates that did not become Judges over the last 13 month period, making an annual attrition rate of some 51%. Essentially half of those who apply to become Judges do not make it. Yet for all that the faction grows. Of course we have heard from many “Veteran” gamers that the training program is useless, or training is below expectations, or we are “elitist” and so on and so forth. We have offered training to non-judges, and not one “Veteran” gamer has ever accepted. I guess they know all there is to know. I do wish I did.

You have asked, so I shall ask. How can a faction grow and thrive with as little activity as you all seem to think? Does your faction grow and thrive with no RP and no interaction? Is it possible you are overlooking something? You are all so memorized by the left hand, that you have no idea what the right hand is doing, or that it even exists. Why are we thriving? It must be magic since nothing else is of course possible.

“It's nothing personal - I just have certain rigorous standards that I would expect factions to adhere to when applying for Official status.”

I am truly sorry, but we do not answer to you. You may keep your rigorous standards and God Bless. I am sure the same rigorous standards were in place for each of the other 54 official factions who have done so well for so long. We shall NEVER meet your standards rigorous or otherwise simply because you did NOT write the faction application. Please help someone else if you would be so kind.

Possibly, we do have a plan and an agenda which we do not choose to share with so many “veteran” players of “established” factions. Maybe, we even have designated goals as part of the plan. As for deserving Official status, are we less so than the MANY established factions with a simple linear approach (kill, post bounty, kill, post bounty, kill, post bounty, etc,etc.) to their gaming. As to that the Administrators as a group must decide what is best for the server.

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[Haste]

Hours of activity are no measure of quality. Also, to be blunt, most of your members seem to be relatively new players. This is no false claim - I've roleplayed / spoken to a fair number, and quite a few of them are clearly very new to roleplay. That's not a problem, mind you. With guidance they'll get better. It's only good that you're guiding them.

However, that leads to this: your faction has many - active - members, and thus many hours of activity. And yes, a great amount of that activity is sitting on Newark. You can't deny that. I applaud any efforts to reduce that "hobby", however.

Now, as for your lore.. The main issue I take with it is that you're retconning lore and establishing yourself as a powerful, mighty faction, even though there has been no mention of your existence in the past. Slightly awkward. It also clashes with other factions' lore (Ageira, for one), and it would be wiser for you to discuss your plans with them first, and see if you can find a middle road everyone can agree with.

What I would personally suggest is that, if you truly wish to be the "UN of Sirius" - establish yourself now / a year ago, when your faction actually was founded. Build contacts. Instead of changing existing lore and doing so in a fashion that greatly benefits your in-roleplay "power" as a faction, set your faction up ingame. The UN was founded in real life. If you believe it could be founded in Sirius, do so now, instead of claiming it "already happened 500 years ago".

Just my two cents.

[Thyrzul]

Just because you collect the new and the pvp oriented players, and build up your activity on the server, train your recruits, all of these won't make you a good roleplaying faction. Numbers of hours mean nothing if you cannot show up with anything useful... or with anything at all besides sitting at Newark and... where now? Conn?



Ah, yes, indeed. Conn. Maybe not sitting at one place this time, but I still doubt you roleplayed anything in there.

Also, this:

Now, as for your lore.. The main issue I take with it is that you're retconning lore and establishing yourself as a powerful, mighty faction, even though there has been no mention of your existence in the past. Slightly awkward. It also clashes with other factions' lore (Ageira, for one), and it would be wiser for you to discuss your plans with them first, and see if you can find a middle road everyone can agree with.

I would rather not see a PvP faction full of newbies and with a roleplay background pulled out of nowhere in all of a sudden, not caring about what roleplay others built up in the latest years... well, I'd rather not see such faction achieve official status.

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[Tonto1911]

Congratulations, you pulled the list from our WEEKLY training session. We do that once a week, every week to keep us tight as a faction and make sure we all work well with each other. We used to have it inRP, we got told to go to Conn by everyone. Now people are going to complain when we go to Conn? Seriously people, make up your damn minds.