Order fighter

[mjolnir]

Kind of interesting stats....

very good pilots could rape anyone in that no sweat.
Sure small (eagle powercore) like it has now is good but remember that since it will be Order you see a lot of people with 6 Nomads then. Kind of neglecting the powercore problem.

Still with low bats/bots and armor (this will die to one Mini Razor) it won't be overpowered by itself.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Jinx]

can you write down the most probable competitor to that ship - the hammerheads stats? - i d love to see it directly compared to your suggested stats.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[mjolnir]

New Talon, Hammerhead

Turn Rate: 1.2000, (1.3415)
Gun/Turret Mounts: 6/1, same
Armor: 7250, 7900
Cargo Space: 35, 70
Max Batteries/NanoBots: 40, 49
Shield Class 10 (10127), Class 9 (8063)
Power supply: 1040/1100, 9000/900
6x Class 10 Gun Hardpoints (Forward-Fire), 2x lvl 8, 4x lvl 9
1x Class 5 turret Hardpoint (Rear-Fire Only) 1x Class 5 (rear)

Well the shield and hardpoints can't be changed I think (playerwipe needed?).

There is a bit of a problem though as order ships tend to be slower and heavily armored in the class.

So maybe down the turn rate to some 1.17 (Chimaera, Guardian) and up the armor a bit?

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Cosmos]

take off the flicky up bits on the end of the wings, make the tail fin thinner slim out the body and also shorten the wings and make them more up instead of at an angle?

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[22:50:33] ☆ҳ̸̲Ҳ̸ҳEternal†Nightmareҳ̸̲Ҳ̸ҳ☆(illi): i cyber with leather torps (smoking)

[Cosmos]

if its going 2 have class 10 weapons, i think everyone would reject the nephtys and elect this as the number 1 ship for the order, which shouldnt happen.

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[22:50:33] ☆ҳ̸̲Ҳ̸ҳEternal†Nightmareҳ̸̲Ҳ̸ҳ☆(illi): i cyber with leather torps (smoking)

[Jinx]

it MUST have 6x lvl10 weapons - if its a replace. my advice for replaces is ... change the shape - but do not change anything else if possible. - keep its agility and its armour and try to model a ship that fits into this.

right now, its notoriously low on energy - its a big target, but on a head on situation, has quite a small profile due to its flatness. it has 4 hardpoints in a single place making aiming there easier ( in case you stick shield breakers or missiles on the other hardpoints on the wings )

changing the concept to something of hammerhead ( or better ) stats will make things hard to balance. - 6 lvl 10 weapons is not to be underestimated. - its as hard to balance as the ravens claw with its 8 weapons. - a unique ship that is well balanced as you can see - its not overused much, but no one would deny its powers.

i predict a ship like the blood dragon with these stats. - you may say "move it to 100" and "only order only weapons" - but that hasn t worked for the blood dragon either. - blood dragons are used by others than BDs and people put other weapons on it than BD faction weapons. - such things simply don t work.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Tenacity]

however you miss one characteristic of the talon, tenacity - the talon has almost all its weapons in a single weaponpod. - that makes aiming easier - maybe you can keep this characterictic.

It only helps slightly, and with this thing being made smaller and more manuverable I dont think easy aiming is as required. I want to keep it balanced while changing it into something actually useful.

and let's vote on a name for it other than Talon, hmm?

I vote:
Sekhmet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sekhmet

or

Satis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satis

To keep in line with the Order's egyptian flare.

Sehkmet is being used for the new Order bomber.

Other possible egyptian diety names:
Tefnut
Horus
Seker
Amunet
Apophis

Right, I wouldn't say those stats are too overpowering but..

Well, I can say that it WILL get whored.

And it's a pretty big boost.. From brick, as it is now, to a super-powerful ship.

All we'd have to do is put in the ship infocard that it's a prototype, very few are in use, and that the order is keeping the ship secret.

That restricts it to order players only, and very rarely to it's close allies (corsairs/zoners).

wait, what will this even be?
We have a heavy fighter, will have a very heavy fighter and a light fighter in the next mod version, so is this going to be a super heavy fighter despite its size or something?

And yes, sekhmet is the name for the upcoming Order bomber for which some of us are psyched for!!!

The current talon is a VHF, I'm only suggesting a model replacement (because the current talon doesnt look like a freelancer ship) and a stat change to keep it balanced.

It'd be an advanced VHF, focused on agility and firepower with around light fighter armor, cargo, and bots/bats capacity.

The power core would remain the same as the current talon, which drains pretty quickly if you use all class 10 guns.

Well the shield and hardpoints can't be changed I think (playerwipe needed?).

There is a bit of a problem though as order ships tend to be slower and heavily armored in the class.

So maybe down the turn rate to some 1.17 (Chimaera, Guardian) and up the armor a bit?

That would defeat the point of it being an 'agile' VHF. Like I said, the current talon notes in the disco mod readme, and the current infocard, both state it's supposed to be a very agile vessel - but it barely has more manuverability than the praetorian bomber. The saber has like a 1.2222 turn rate I think, so this would be slightly slower than the saber, but still quick enough in skilled hands to keep up with most other VHF's.

One of the primary enemies to the order are the nomads (keepers) - and their ships beat ours one on one nearly every engagement that occurs. A nephthys doesnt stand a chance in hell against a nomad assassin or even the nomad bomber, and the keepers are generally good pilots to begin with.

The order originally had slower but heavier armed/armored ships - that was fine in vanilla FL when their opponents werent so powerful. Now the enemy is using better weapons, and is more manuverable; and the order would naturally develop a strike fighter with higher agility to keep up with enemy fighter craft. Also as I said, it's a prototype ship, so there wouldnt be a ton of them (in-rp at least, I'd expect black squadron to have a few, and maybe some order indies, but not much more than that).

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[Ascendancy]

I would definitely like to see a replacement of the Talon VHF -- it's a good ship for fighting NPCs because you have the weapon hardpoints to take them out but otherwise in PvP it's only useful if you're jousting. I would only assume the next fighter that goes in its place would keep the hardpoints it has with the same power plant (for balance, no less). I have flown the ship myself back in 4.83 and a couple times in 4.84 and was rather disappointed when I came across an encounter that wasn't an NPC. Hell, in training I got wiped out faster than those in Neps.

It's a good idea to beef up the agility since the infocard says its an experimental and agile very heavy fighter, but I would still prefer a Nephthys over it if the armour rating is only 7250. In the Omicrons survivability is just as important as the firepower you carry with you, and even though the Nephthys is a vanilla fighter I could probably survive longer in that and have the power plant to dish out nearly the same amount of firepower as the the Talon would be able to since I can fire longer and keep suppression fire streaming outward. (Well that, and since I'm a seasoned pilot in a Nephthys...)

Anyway, I'm sure a few of us within Black Squadron would have the Talon fighter you proposed, Tenacity, since we could use them for strike teams and have our heavier Nephthys fighters come right behind them to deliver a standard compliment of firepower with the experimental Talons firing hails of Codenames/Nomadic weapons. I'm so used to the standard setup of 2x Class 9, 4x Class 10 and 1x Class 5 Turret hardpoints that I'd probably forget I'd have all Class 10 hardpoints.

Personally though, since I don't keep multiple very heavy fighters for the same set of characters or factions, I'd stick to my Viper Mk I I've been flying for so long now or just keep the Nephthys because its our traditional very heavy fighter that's been getting the job done for months if not years now. I'm sure sooner or later though I'd go buy one on impulse and give it a run.:P


Ascendancy


P.S. Apophis is already taken by the name of our guardian Osiris class battleship in Omicron 100.

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Thanks to Cattman2236 of E-Studios Forums for the signature.

The Kalashnikov. Still sees use in the hands of Coalition-aligned anthropomorphic cats Sirius-wide.

[Tenacity]

P.S. Apophis is already taken by the name of our guardian Osiris class battleship in Omicron 100.

I know =P

Anyways, about the armor reduction... the current talon only has 9200 armor, so you're only losing about 2k hull strength in exchange for a pretty good agility boost, and a reduction in ship hitbox size (making you harder to hit if you're dodging).

the Nephthys only has 14.5k armor because it's a vanilla ship, and thus takes about triple the damage from explosives that non vanilla models do.

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[kingvaillant]

It should be slimmer, BUT it should have large and long wings to compensate
(Better in joust, but bad in turns(bigger target))

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