POB Refinery and or Ship Modules

[Docent]

Mate, it looks like you're the one most interested in a such functionality, so I propose you start working on the proposal. If someone wishes to chip in they will. But waiting seems a bit counterproductive if you ask me. I salute your enthusiasm and I dearly hope it lasts.

[Karst]

First of all We would NEVER be adding 2 Ores together, we would be changing lets say Gold Ore to Gold, Aluminum Ore into Aluminum and so on.

but if you brought Aluminum Ore to a Gold Refining POB it would smelt it down into Refined Aluminum.

Refinery Output
The refinery would only convert any Ore that already has a Refined Metal or substance in the game. If you mined lets say Furs there is no Counterpart so smelter would maybe look at you kind of funny lol

Smelting Process
You would need something to the Mix for a Smelter to Operate, lets say you Process 2 Ore you would need 1 Unit of lets say Lanthanum because it is sold almost everywhere and is cheap, as far as I know it really doesn't have a use. anyways with the refinery smelting Process it would take 2 Raw Ore and 1 Lanthanum to make one Unit of Refined Gold. you want the 5000 Units of Lanthanum to convert 10k of Ore into 5,000 Units of Refined metal your going to be taking from the base.

PLEASE HELP, This is OUR WORK.
Please remember this is only my Starting Idea. But (OUR Work) WE CAN MAKE THIS HAPPEN, of course with the DEV Teams Help of course

Remember I need your Help to make this work, I'm trying to use whats in the game and setup already and use that. with as little work for the DEV team as we have to.

Sorry but there's absolutely no basis to work with here, you're just tossing out random commodity names and numbers. This is really nothing more than saying "I have a vague conceptual idea, can somebody else please do the entire work of translating abstract concepts into cold, hard, balanced numbers?".

In all sectors of development, whether it's balance, story, or as in this case, economy, suggestions that amount to nothing more than "can you add [abstract idea]?" will pretty much never lead to anything. I suggest working out an actual foundation for such a system if you want to see it implemented.

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[SwiftWing]

I've already worked out most of it, it uses whats already in the game, Commodities and all. Dev team would have to make the code for converting Ore to Refined Item. and making the code for the Smelter. Other than that. they have to pick a Item that the base uses in the Smelting Process. I've only chose one such Item in the whole list.

Most of the rest would have to be worked out by the DEV team, allowing it to convert all Ores or minable goods into it's end Smelting Item. Most of the Items in the game have finished Refined Items.

I was hoping someone else might have more Ideas on this that I have not thought of to help this Idea along.

[LuckyOne]

^ I'm afraid you missed Karsts' point.. He's trying to tell you, for your idea to be viable for implementation, you need to consider the impact and all the possible consequences for the gameplay and balance. Moreover you need to show numbers. How will it be balanced. How will the players' profit be affected. What trade routes would need to be changed? How do the prices need to be adjusted?

Just throwing out some random nicely written sentences is not enough. It's nice for starting the brainstorming process, but when an idea is agreed upon you need to get to work.

[Darkseid667]

I think most of you are overcomplicating stuff here. The main idea is that the owner of a POB can get a small profit from providing miners a place to drop their ore and traders a place to buy ore when no miner is in the system.
Up to now there is no way to make a profit from a mining POB if you don't mine yourself and tediously haul the ore in, or try to organise a small mining operation with friends and split the profit.
A refined product (PS: but must be new, nothing of the already existing stuff), transformed 1:1, maybe with a little fuel like oil, H-Fuel etc, with a small sell bonus at EXACTLY the same locations as the unrefined ore would be no big game changer. But it would allow the POB owner to set up different buy and sell prices for basically the same stuff, but now two different commodities - something that is impossible at the moment due to the game engine.

So, +1 from me.

[Agent Omega]

I am probably missing finer details, but cant that idea use the very same equipment construction system? You make smelter as a module, it consumes ore, puts refined ore.

Edit: I swear this forum needs an account switcher or something like that, or I am simply incapable of managing multiple accounts.

[Grumblesaur]

First of all, there is already a thread for POB suggestions, which was created (I'm assuming) with the intention of consolidating all of the others that have cropped up in the last few weeks.

Second of all, Karst knows what he's talking about. Your idea is, at best half-baked. There is little here that describes an actionable implementation. You don't seem to have a clear vision of even the ore-to-refined metal conversion process.

POB Refinery and or Ship Modules

Converts Ore into Smelted Solid Refined Ores worth More at Selling points. Miners Drop off Raw ores at POB's with Refiner Smelters and Each Smelter Converts X amount per hours and or All dropped ore converted Instantly. or Tics down converting the ore. maybe ore Conversion Rate Poll or something needed.

If the conversion process is instantaneous, then it is literally no different than stopping on an NPC base, selling one commodity, and buying another. Whether you're dropping off gold ore and picking up gold bricks, or dropping off socialites and picking up molybdenum, it's just a simple exchange of goods. There is no new game mechanic there.

If the conversion process is gradual, then it means that the drop-off point for the ore may temporarily be lacking in a processed commodity to pick up. POBs are already trade dead-ends when they run out of ore to pick up, and there are already NPC bases which buy goods, but don't sell anything valuable. Again, this idea just adds something to POBs that doesn't add anything to the game that doesn't already exist.

But this is a way that POB's for once can make money. POBs will be useful for once near Mine fields. Not just used for drop off pick ups etc.

Pro's will make more activity for mining.

Suggested ratio. 2 Raw ore to 1 Refined Metal, because that would be 10 thousand Raw Ore per one 5k full.

POBs can already make money by buying ore from miners for price A and selling that ore to traders for A + $500. Your change just involves adding extra steps and involving other commodities. Additional complexity for no tangible benefit. Also, POBs are already useful in mining zones (to a point that I happen to think is detrimental to the game) by giving miners a place to shelter from pirates that doesn't require a long flight back to their nearest friendly NPC base. This subverts the designs of the systems developers, giving an advantage that was not intended by the layout of fixed NPC assets.

Cons
Gives Pirates more of a Reason than they have now, cause Refined Metals will sell for about 4x the amount as raw ores,

You seem to think giving pirates things to do is a bad thing. This is not a healthy approach to any attempt to balance a game mechanic. Unlawfuls are a necessary part of the game, as without them, there would be no in-game conflict. Just lawfuls patrolling for no reason and traders never having a reason to fear.

But anyway, Karst is right. The ability to place factory POBs near to the final destination of the refined materials means that, in many cases, pirates will never be able to see those valuable refined goods, more than likely only the ore used to make them. There is scarcely time, even with a bomber or a gunboat, for a pirate to issue a demand and wait a reasonable amount of time for a response in the sub-minute time it would take to fly from a factory POB to the nearby endpoint for the refined cargo.

Never mind the fact that POBs are "always on". This lets the POB multiply the value of ore even while its owners are offline, rather than just adding a simple margin onto the ore as the current form of POB ore storage allows it. Every other means of generating income in the game, missions, trading, mining, and piracy, requires active participation in the game environment. Once one of your factories is set up, it would function as long as the base is maintained. There is no ongoing cost or errand required in your proposal here.

There is no need for somebody to log in and offload the slag from the smelting processes. There is no need to obtain catalysts for chemical processing. Just put one commodity in, and get another more valuable commodity out. Even if you have to wait, you can just wait offline, which means in-game time is optional. Even if the setup cost is large (that is, building the foundry module in the first place), with no ongoing cost, it will eventually be paid off by the operations of the base, and begin turning a completely undiminished profit. The costs are amortized over the lifetime of the base, which is potentially indefinite if built near other bases, defended well, or both.

Also I would like to see a Refinery ship, and or a Combo Refinery ship miner. that would have something like a docking bay slot used for a Refinery. in turn same Item can also be used in POB's or POB's can make a POB only version with a Lot faster rate of Conversion. and can mount 2 or 3 on a level 2 POB. more on larger bases

I even thought about bringing back something like the barg with more Smelter slots, but that thing is a Total Beast to fly so might be better to use other ships and make them Mining processing ships only.

What do you think about this Idea? All input welcome!

When you wrote this proposal, did you genuinely believe this would improve the game, or did you only consider improving POBs? Game balance is a holistic process; it can't be isolated into different silos.

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A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.

[SwiftWing]

Fine, I give the Heck up! some one else wants to try this fine, I'm getting tired of Being put down, and people not reading everything.

I do not know why People think that a Base makes tons of money. It doesn't make anything unless you shut down Selling tell it is full then change the price to sell it. this doesn't work. because they will go elsewhere. there is no way a Base can make money. people don't get it that Bases cause more Interaction in the game Per Item than anything else. Simply put. you have a ton of time spent going all over getting supplies, and Spending Billions of Credits to get it up and God only knows how many more Millions to keep it going with Taxes and everything else added onto that. endless hours go into a base. more than anything else.

1. It adds Steps in the Mining Process.
2. Gives Pirates more chances to catch Miners and traders.
3. Gives Pirates Higher gain on there Piracy Demands cause the loads coming from Mining Areas will be worth more.
4. When Ore lives the base there is no Real Loss when they leave the system. Only time a Hauler gets hit hard is when he is almost in range to sell the Ore.
4.a now your leaving with the Finished Item that is worth more than the ore.
5. it is not a 1 to 1 Ration. you have to bring in a Catalyst to convert the Ore to refined End Product.

Oh Hell I give up. I'm Tired of bickering about this.
Most rather put it down that consider helping.

[Grumblesaur]

Fine, I give the Heck up! some one else wants to try this fine, I'm getting tired of Being put down, and people not reading everything.

I do not know why People think that a Base makes tons of money. It doesn't make anything unless you shut down Selling tell it is full then change the price to sell it. this doesn't work. because they will go elsewhere. there is no way a Base can make money. people don't get it that Bases cause more Interaction in the game Per Item than anything else. Simply put. you have a ton of time spent going all over getting supplies, and Spending Billions of Credits to get it up and God only knows how many more Millions to keep it going with Taxes and everything else added onto that. endless hours go into a base. more than anything else.

1. It adds Steps in the Mining Process.
2. Gives Pirates more chances to catch Miners and traders.
3. Gives Pirates Higher gain on there Piracy Demands cause the loads coming from Mining Areas will be worth more.
4. When Ore lives the base there is no Real Loss when they leave the system. Only time a Hauler gets hit hard is when he is almost in range to sell the Ore.
4.a now your leaving with the Finished Item that is worth more than the ore.
5. it is not a 1 to 1 Ration. you have to bring in a Catalyst to convert the Ore to refined End Product.

Bases avoid more interaction than they create when used as ore depots. Miners and traders don't have to meet or coordinate in-game when a mining ship can drop off ore for a trade ship (perhaps even flown by the same player) to pick up later. All of the hours trading to support a base are, from the perspective of creating player interaction, exactly the same as trading between NPC bases.

Oh Hell I give up. I'm Tired of bickering about this.
Most rather put it down that consider helping.

What do you think about this Idea? All input welcome!

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A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.

[Its Raisu]

I had an idea recently related to Refining Modules for POBs.

Having the input just be Ore and then over time it produces a higher profit commodity wouldn't be all that great.

The idea I had involved the presence of 1 or even 2 other commodities that went into the refining recipe.

So rather than a situation where you're reducing the interactions related to mining (Miners only need to dump onto a nearby Ore silo, where Haulers pickup from Ore silo to sell, thus reducing risk for the miners). You do things in a way that increases the interactions related to mining. Players could haul the ore off as usual, or go for refining the ore which would require additional cargo hauls from other locations.

I'd also probably consider only allowing refinery modules on Core 1 or maybe Core 2 bases as well that way you can't have a nearly-indestructible refinery.

edit: Ah just noticed the 2nd to last post where you mentioned not being a 1:1 ratio and using a catalyst, so similar to what I've talked about on one of the Discord servers.

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edit 2 to avoid doubleposting and to comment on some things Grumblesaur had in his post:

Second of all, Karst knows what he's talking about. Your idea is, at best half-baked. There is little here that describes an actionable implementation. You don't seem to have a clear vision of even the ore-to-refined metal conversion process.

I would imagine that the entire purpose of the thread is discussion related to the idea itself, and is not intended to be an actual implementation of the idea to be submitted to the mod. So what is the point behind comments like this?

But anyway, Karst is right. The ability to place factory POBs near to the final destination of the refined materials means that, in many cases, pirates will never be able to see those valuable refined goods, more than likely only the ore used to make them.

One potential solution to this concern would be having such a Refinery Module only work if the POB is in a mining field.

There is no ongoing cost or errand required in your proposal here.

This is probably better answered by an idea that I had around a Research Module that would turn varying amounts of Nomad Remains into Sci Data (gunboat remains requiring more, battleship remains requiring less, etc). A POB with that module would also need X amount of Scientists, which would add onto the consumption of FOW supplies for the POB. Similarly, a Refinery Module could add an additional crew requirement which add an on-going cost as well as any sort of catalyst that is needed for refining Ores.

There is no need for somebody to log in and offload the slag from the smelting processes.

Hey, good idea. That is the purpose of discussion threads. The recipe could very well result in a useless commodity that would need to be removed to prevent it from taking up cargo space on the POB. But why bring this up as a "This sucks, your idea doesn't even have something like this" rather than a "What if your idea also included something like this?"