I will echo the points that Petr made. We see nothing wrong in principle with a group of citizens deciding to take up arms in defence of Bretonia. However, I have a few points that need to be addressed in order to assuage some concerns.
1. The issue of taking characters out of the BAF into another faction is something that I know there have been concerns about in the past. That's not to say you can't do it, but I would expect the BAF leadership to at least be consulted before other factions "steal" any of our members.
2. Whatever your views, the Bretonian government clearly views the corsairs as a secondary threat when compared with Kusari. I would therefore suggest like Petr that you try to avoid using BAF ships when possible, as almost all BAF ships being manufactured would go straight to the Leeds front.
3. If you intend your organisation to operate (inRP) under the "control" of the Bretonian government, I would be concerned about us being held responsible for any real or perceived "gamma raids" or "corsair pvp abuse". Not that I am suggesting there will neccessarily be any, but I cannot tell in advance how close in practice your activities will be to what you have laid out in your well-presented post. The mere fact of a Bretonian group operating in the Omegas has the potential to lead to all sorts of trouble. If you can handle that, then good on you, but I wouldn't want complaints from other organisations that a Bretonian government sactioned group was causing problems. For instance - your ZOI marks Omega 11 and Omega 7 - true there are corsairs there, but those systems are under the protection of the Rheinland Military, and I would fear the consequences of a Bretonian military order trying to operate there. You maybe need to think through your political and diplomatic position a little more carefully to avoid causing any "diplomatic incidents"
4. If, on the other hand, you intend to operate as a fully independent paramilitary organisation beyond the control of the Bretonian government, then I would need to be assured that your forces don't start getting in the way of regular BAF operations, or trying to do the BAF's job for them. That would mean concentrating on the Omegas, and not being seen in northern Bretonia unless there was express need to do so. Also you would need to remember that you would not have authority over civilians in the way the BPA and BAF do, and would not, for instance, be able to enforce the laws of Bretonia. I would doubt you would even be able to halt the ships of smugglers taking supplies to the corsairs or selling their artifacts for fear of simply becomming vigilantes, something you have expressed you don't want. Basically you would be limited in fighting genuine corsair IDed ships for the most part, which could limit your RP opportunities. Again, you need to think carefully about how your organisation fits into the Bretonian system as a whole - e.g. (and this is just one example), would you submit to orders from regular BAF or not? What about BPA, or MI5? If only in certain cirumstances, what would those cirumstances be? Answer questions like these, and you will find your position much clearer, making it easier for others to judge your faction.
If the above points can be addressed satisfactorily, I am happy for you to proceed. Though I'm sure Dieter will have his own views, and again our support depends on how you act in practice in-game, not just on your written proposals. We will need some convincing that this is not going to end up causing more trouble than it is worth.
Sir Stanley Nelson <span style="color:#000066">Charles Canning </span><span style="color:#000066"> Foreign Secretary</span>
I need to head off for tonight - I'll respond to further comments in the morning. LeMaitre, you make some valid points - I'll answer 'em all once I wake up, I promise.
Good morning. Right, LeMaitre, let's see what you have to say:
As to point one: er, point taken, sorry about that. Those members that converted their BAF characters to crusaders were fairly inactive as BAF; we assumed it wouldn't matter too much and that'd it be a good way of expanding roleplay for the characters in question. If somebody else wants to do the same, we'll notify you in future and make sure such a conversion doesn't pose you any problems.
As to point two: that's true, and it's a point that's been brought up repeatedly. We're taking several approaches to this: firstly, that a certain amount of the crusaders are former Armed Forces officers whose tours of duty ran out, and that they're simply refurbishing their service spacecraft for the crusade. 'Course, that could only apply to fighters and bombers. Secondly, that, given that the crusade is effectively taking an entire flank of the battle to protect Bretonia off the BAF's hands, and that it's a large, courageous, dedicated warhost of non-BAF (basically a force that the BAF wasn't counting on having around and that would otherwise probably have to be conscripted by force) that's being well-trained and is firmly organized and led, and that the crusade has a real chance of succeeding, at least in breaching the Corsair's first line of defense, it'd only make sense from a tactical point of view to make sure the crusaders are, by and large, properly armed and on similar technological footing as their enemies.
As to point three: it's somewhat difficult to classify our relations to the Bretonian government. We used historical chivalric orders dating from the Crusades as inspirations for our faction, and they also, to a large degree, maintained complicated or unclear relations to their kings and homelands. Basically, we'd like the Order to be under the control of the Bretonian government on paper, but largely autonomous (owing to the twin complications of distance and the Kusari war effort), much like actual crusading Knights. We'd definitely adopt full responsibility for our actions in the Omegas, should they end up offending somebody (which, given that we're fighting Corsairs, is almost a certainty, but oh well); ideally, the Bretonian government and the BAF should consider us allies taking over an aspect of Bretonian defense in the far Omicrons, and shouldn't feel responsible for us. We'll handle any flak or fallout ourselves.
About the Rheinland issue - I actually hadn't given that any thought. Thanks for reminding me of that - I'll need to check in with the Buero des Gottkanzlers.
Lastly, as to point four - I think I've answered the question about our autonomity above already. You've got it in a nutshell about BAF/Order interference - we intend to concentrate on the Omegas almost exclusively. If an Order of the Lion pilot crops up in Bretonia proper, it'll be a rare event, and it'll almost certainly happen only if we're both in the area (say, Omega-3) and actually contacted for help by a BAF pilot. We don't have, want or need authority over civilians. Doubtful that many Bretonian civilians turn up in the Edge Worlds anyway. That's entirely your province and that of the BPA, and you're welcome to it. Nor will we be intercepting smugglers unless they actually ID themselves as Corsairs or, much less likely, as (Orillion's) Order. Incidentally, Corsairs aren't the only enemies on our list - if we encounter Outcasts or Red Hessians, for example, and they interfere with whatever our mission is at the time, we'd be ready to fight them, as well. Would we submit to orders from regular BAF? If BAF and Order of the Lion pilots ever meet, it'll probably be in Bretonia proper, so yeah, we would. You're Bretonia's lawmen, after all.
Paramilitary seems to be a good word for you guys - your group seems to be driven a lot by idealism.
Perhaps, a possible source of pilots for your cause might be people who are looking for redemption? People whi perhaps cannot serve in the BAF due to previous dishonour?
Such people might be attracted to a paramilitary group offering a chance to make up for their misdeeds.
I must say, when I first saw the title and a few rumblings about this on Skype my reaction was "oh dear, another 'pew pew Corsairs YANF', kinda like the T2B BH GS thing that tried to get pulled a while back"
But then I read it, and it sounds very well thought out and planned, and it really does harken back to the Crusades from Midevil Europe.
I wish to echo Lawowi's statement though, the Corsair bases outside of Gamma are pretty empty, and I would be displeased if I saw your boys in Gamma outside of an organized event.
That being said, I agree, this idea has much potential, esp if they develop close under the table ties to the BAF, working as scouts and such. I can see the Hessians looking the other way if you're killing Corsairs, esp if you make it a habit and don't shoot them. My advice would be to (barely) talk it out with the RHA leaders, but don't just impose a "we don't shoot each other now", let it work itself out ingame.
I would like to know what you plan to do about the rather large presense of Corsairs in Omega 49, because that's a lot of politically protected Corsairs sitting on your back porch.
Now, to the main part of my post. :P
I have serious concerns about your existing infastructure, where do you get supplies (food, water, medical, spare parts, fuel, ect) from? Those things cost lots of money, and without offical government sponsering or a wealthy investor/corporate sponsor I don't see you having that much money.
Where do you base from? I know you mentioned a BMM base but I really doubt that they would enjoy making themselves a primary target for Corsair retaliation.
What is your support infastructure like? Mechanics, cooks, hookers, analists, intelligence guys, trainers, ect. From what I've seen you have no supply chain, no releif, no logistics (which was one of the main reasons most crusades failed btw) or consistant supplies.
I do like the idea of using fireflys to supply your own bases, makes for good convoy missions. Also, retrofitted Firefly's could serve as Marine Transports, or Command and Control Centers.
Finally, the Bretonian Rapid Repsonse Force: Prime (my mini task force, containing 3 GBs, mainly the HMS-Nestor) could conveniantly be ordered into a nearby area to you if you need extra fire support.
Edit, Forgot.
From a tactical standpoint, if you're defending and squished between 2 forces coming at you, simply trying to hold isn't enough, you need to take away an advantage of theirs and capitalize on one of their main weaknesses, supply lines. Going on an indirect offensive (especially with a small mobile "wrecking unit") behind enemy lines can demoralize them, make it so they don't have the supplies needed to keep up their offensive, keep them off guard, throw them on the defensive, and most importantly, they'll re-allocate forces from the front to chase your force down, if you can stay a step ahead of them their offensive could be stalled for months. That could very well buy the Bretonian Empire the breating time to force a stalemate with Kusari.
This idea is sort of like the Privateers, instead of Kusari it's Corsairs they're causing mayham for. Again, it's very dependent on if you attack Gamma or not.
Don't take my word for anything I say, and to be honest I havn't read the entirety of the description, but I think I can answer a few of these Mwerte.
Quote:I wish to echo Lawowi's statement though, the Corsair bases outside of Gamma are pretty empty, and I would be displeased if I saw your boys in Gamma outside of an organized event.
Undoubtedly somebody will get bored or overzealous and cruise around Gamma looking for a fight, but hey, the Coalition have aquired a few crossbows so I'm we can find a rack or two.
Quote:I would like to know what you plan to do about the rather large presense of Corsairs in Omega 49, because that's a lot of politically protected Corsairs sitting on your back porch.
Well, as I've read in the recent arguements over the Corsairs pirating in 49, apparently we Bretonians don't know it's there. I guess however that we may eventually trace them to Canaria, and in that case we may even seize a little funding off the Zoners in exchange for keeping the location secret:P
Quote:I have serious concerns about your existing infastructure, where do you get supplies (food, water, medical, spare parts, fuel, ect) from? Those things cost lots of money, and without offical government sponsering or a wealthy investor/corporate sponsor I don't see you having that much money.
The 'founding fathers' I guess you could call them, if not for the fact that it's an American term, are mostly Lords, following their rights and responsibilites as Lords. Some of them are bound to have -some- cash, which should help there, and perhaps the Fireflies could be used for making more, rather than being restricted to hauling supplies between bases. Who knows? There are so many ways to make cash in a universe as large as Sirius. Maybe we could even sell Corsair prisoners to Hunters or Outcasts, although that wouldn't be a very knightly thing to do.
Quote:Where do you base from? I know you mentioned a BMM base but I really doubt that they would enjoy making themselves a primary target for Corsair retaliation.
Not so sure about this one. I doubt we'll be making serious use of Freeports, seeing as the Zoners tend to be angry when you use them to shoot up opposing factions, but we'll see how it travels.
Quote:What is your support infastructure like? Mechanics, cooks, hookers, analists, intelligence guys, trainers, ect. From what I've seen you have no supply chain, no releif, no logistics (which was one of the main reasons most crusades failed btw) or consistant supplies.
Hey, we're chivalrous. What kind of self-respecting Lord would lower themselves to hookers? Apart from that, I'm not the best person to answer.
To repeat my first line:
Disclaimer - Do not take anything I say as the final word, these are merely educated guesses at best.
The Corsairs do not invade Bretonia. The Corsairs have only invaded house space on one occasion; the planned and RPed invasion of Rhineland in 816 A.S. which ended in the destruction of the then TBH flagship.
There is a world of a difference between raiding/piracy and invasion.
The Corsairs, among other things, are one of Bretonia's crime factions. Despite this, you believe that sending fleets to lay siege to their home world is a reasonable response to their crimes?
I would hope Bretonia would never attack crime using genocide.
If a faction was set up in Bretonia specifically to destroy the Mollys by pushing them back all the way to their guard system and laying siege to their bases, people would not be impressed. Desire to wipe out a faction is no basis for a clan to exist.
Furthermore, in decent RP Bretonia shouldn't have any idea where Corsairs are based out of, or where their home-world is. Bounty Hunters certainly wouldn't share it with you; you could muscle in on their profits.
I can guarantee Omicron Gamma is invaded much more frequently than the frequency at which Corsairs step foot in Bretonia, and they do so purely because they're headed somewhere or they have decent RP motives; to pirate and make money for the people of Crete to be used to buy food etc.
If you want to bring balance to the game, go do something else, because "putting the Corsairs on the defensive" should never be on the agenda; "defensive" is 95% of what we do, and not out of choice.
We're already obligated to battle Bounty Hunters, Hessians, Outcasts, SCRA, Keepers, Wilde and Mercenaries who show up looking for a fight and always expect us to provide.
The pilots that are out in Bretonia, and more likely, the Omegas pirating do so because they want to RP with traders. Yet, you respond to this by making a clan devoted to forcing these players to PVP rather than RP.
There are also traders who relish the opportunity to be pirated because, frankly, trading can be pretty dull. You would be depriving THEM too.
You're essentially trying to force a style of gameplay on players that have specifically chosen to TRY to do other things.
Id suggest that if you have a problem with piracy in Bretonia (and that IS the only reason Bretonia has an issue with us. We are criminals in their eyes, not soldiers at war) then get out there and police Bretonian space, or escort traders. Don't jump onto the already over-filled "invade Corsair space" bandwagon.
And, consider that the majority of players with Corsair characters have already stated that they do not want to have to deal with a clan that's only motivation is to PVP with them. Do you really have the right to force it on them?
Paramilitary seems to be a good word for you guys - your group seems to be driven a lot by idealism.
Perhaps, a possible source of pilots for your cause might be people who are looking for redemption? People whi perhaps cannot serve in the BAF due to previous dishonour?
Such people might be attracted to a paramilitary group offering a chance to make up for their misdeeds.
Paramilitary is a damn good word for us. I think I'll adopt it!
Chivalric orders, however, aren't really in the habit of swearing in traitors and Armed Forces deserters. We're not the French Foreign Legion. William and his fellow knights would most likely chase away such applicants, unless they could make a genuinely convincing argument as to why they deserve a second chance.
Going to quote Jake here, which'll probably make my post more compact. Answering your questions, mwerte. Thanks for the good review, by the way.
' Wrote:Undoubtedly somebody will get bored or overzealous and cruise around Gamma looking for a fight, but hey, the Coalition have aquired a few crossbows so I'm we can find a rack or two.
Good way of putting it.
' Wrote:Well, as I've read in the recent arguements over the Corsairs pirating in 49, apparently we Bretonians don't know it's there. I guess however that we may eventually trace them to Canaria, and in that case we may even seize a little funding off the Zoners in exchange for keeping the location secret:P
Going to have to correct Jake here and say that we intend to know all about Omega-49. Frankly, the crusaders'd have to be damn fools and walk around with our eyes firmly shut not to take heed of the rampant Corsair piracy in that system and the steady stream of pilots and liberated loot passing between Omicron Gamma and forty-nine.
' Wrote:The 'founding fathers' I guess you could call them, if not for the fact that it's an American term, are mostly Lords, following their rights and responsibilites as Lords. Some of them are bound to have -some- cash, which should help there, and perhaps the Fireflies could be used for making more, rather than being restricted to hauling supplies between bases. Who knows? There are so many ways to make cash in a universe as large as Sirius. Maybe we could even sell Corsair prisoners to Hunters or Outcasts, although that wouldn't be a very knightly thing to do.
This was my main concern while I was mulling over this idea. We have a solution in mind. You probably missed it, mwerte; I included something in the Sphere of Influence section about our funding; basically, we maintain supply ships, most likely Fireflies, that I intend to have function just like regular trading convoys. We'll haul any legal cargo between Bretonia, Liberty, and Rheinland. We also have a main supply route plotted out, you can find it in the same section - I'm not exactly sure whether it's actually viable as a source of credits (I earn my money through bounty hunting, not through trading). It's mainly an abstract roleplay issue. We have a conceptual idea for eventually forming an APM-style Order-of-the-Lion-affiliated trading ring; we're considering making it a small company of BMM affiliated, largely owned by Equity Lords participating in the crusade. We're not implementing that at this point in time, though.
Jake's idea about selling off captured pilots is a good one; to the Bounty Hunters, not to the Outcasts, though. What good is a realistic crusade if we take out the healthy coat of tarnish, after all?
' Wrote:Not so sure about this one. I doubt we'll be making serious use of Freeports, seeing as the Zoners tend to be angry when you use them to shoot up opposing factions, but we'll see how it travels.
Pretty much this. Eventually, it'd be great to be allowed to construct our own base, perhaps in Omicron Theta.
' Wrote:Hey, we're chivalrous. What kind of self-respecting Lord would lower themselves to hookers? Apart from that, I'm not the best person to answer.
A self-respecting Lord might not lower himself to hookers, but the average crusader might, and sure did in a historical context. The supplies the crusade needs to maintain its momentum will be ferried along our main supply route, and certainly well-guarded.
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