indeed - it is hard to kill a fighter with a SN....
as hard as killing a light fighter as a battleship...
and both ships are not meant to perform that task - but at an appropriate skill level, they might. - so, yes... you re right, - and i never said anything different. - but mastering a battleship is a slowly raising curve - you can practice a long time without seeing much improvement - but you ll be rewarded after a long time.
practicing a bomber - you ll experience a great leap of rewards - but once you made that huge leap that happens early, you ll only improve slightly more - and after the very SAME amount of practice, you will max your skill at a level where you can kill fighters with a SN.... while the battleship masters his gunnary and manages to kill fighters.
to put it graphicly:
( battleship learning curve ) X time / Y skill reward
What Jinx means is using their ships for their express purpose. I.e. for bombers, fighting cruisers and battleships.
I'm a pretty terrible pilot, but I can do a solidly passable job as a bomber against caps, but I'm useless doing everything else, so I understand and agree with what he's saying.
It would take me longer to get to the stage where I can do what the other ships are all 'supposed' to do, but a roughly equal time to get to the stage where you can use ships against their 'hard counter'.
I was flying as Fred.Hertz, managed to take out a bomber before the BS died, and another one after.
I believe that carrier was equipped with primaries... 800 m/s speed on a vantage point 2k away from the ship you're trying to hit... Next to impossible.
This isn't a cock-measuring thread, you don't need to gloat the accomplishment of something that's not difficult at all.
EDIT: I'm positive if I'd have been there when the fight started, the outcome would have been -very- different. Once I took out 2 bombers, the last one would have not been able to touch the BS anymore.
Even one escort is very useful, that video proves.
"using bombers for hitting BS/cruisers is easy" - well hitting BS is relatively easy yes, cruisers less so
So using bombers for their intended purpose is easy.
but then you are comparing it with fighting bombers in a BS and say it's hard...
so using BS for something they are not intended to do is hard ,
If you want to compare bombers/bs compare them in the roles they should do.
a) hitting other BS/cruisers in own bs is just as easy as hitting BS in a bomber
b) hittting bomber in a BS is just as hard as hitting fighters with a SN in a bomber.
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
That being said which I agree with, crying because it is not easy to hit bombers in a battleship is pointless. All vessel types have their own roles and uses. It all depends on your approach in my opinion. So having fun in a battleship is as possible as having fun in a bomber or light fighter.
no, mjolnir, i am afraid you have missed the point - again.
what it is about is... when i start at zero - and i get a bomber. - i can gain the skill to use it to its intended purpose quite easily with relativly little practice. - i experience a rapid increase of "skill" in my own perception. - i see results - i manage to dodge warship fire, i manage to hit them and do considerable damage... i figure out patterns.
this learning curve starts out very rewarding - but "mastering" the ship requires a lot of work where you actually do NOT experience such leaps in rewarding skill anymore.
for a long time, you will still be able to dodge warship fire and shoot your torpedo - but the effect won t be as great as it was when you started out at zero. ( that means - the learning advancement flattens with the time you spend )
now - take the battleship ( or cruiser ) ... people start with great expectations very often - and the rewarding effect start out a bit higher than a fighter. - for one, you deal a lot of damage to a large target and ... in theory you deal a lot of damage to a small target like a fighter.
but in contrast to the bomber, your learning curve advances in tiny steps first - but makes larger leaps later. - so for a long time, you feel like you re not getting much better with the ship at all. - that is why the frustration grade on those ships is so high, cause your expectations don t match your expected advance in skill.
so - after zero hours:
- you suck at flying a bomber
- you suck at flying a battleship
after maybe 20 hours practicing:
- you manage to dodge good enough to evade warship weaponfire
- you still suck at flying a battleship
after maybe 50 hours practicing:
- you still manage to dodge good enough and evade warship weaponfire, - you became better at aiming, but all in all, not much changed for you
- you become better at weapongrouping, get a feeling for your weapons and your ship - you figure out manouvers to dodge torpedos and warship fire
after maybe 100 hours practicing:
- you manage to SN fighters in a joust - but against warships - you re still ... well... good enough to take them down like you have been after maybe 20 hours
- you re pretty good at fighthing other warships of the same size and you even manage to evade a lot of damage while being good enough to aim at small targets
that should illustrate that learning is different for those ships. - one reason is that ... when you can fly one bomber, you can very easily get used to another bomber - if the other bomber is not too different - but even being used to a kusari bomber and switching to a barghest won t make you a lot worse at the bombers primary purpose - fighthing capital ships.
while - when you switch from an osiris to a zoner juggernaut, you really need to learn again, cause what you did in your osiris will kill you in a juggernaut - and you don t have much of a feeling for the weapons anymore. .. its a totally different ship.
of course - if you don t agree with that view - you don t need to, mjolnir. - that is why its subjective.. maybe for you - learning to fly a bomber is fiendishly difficult and flying a battleship is "novice" level - maybe they are completely the same regarding to the learning curve.
but then i really do wonder why we got quite some decent bomberpilots around - while ( as you pointed out ) 94% [ or quite many anyway - i was too lazy to make a search for your post ] of the warship players suck. ( which you wrote in another thread ) - that asks the question....
are only dumb people flying warships? or are they harder to learn....
so lets say it that way...
for ME - the learning curve of these ships look like that. - for YOU, it might to different. for me, that is an explanation of the frustration of players trading weeks and then selling their large ships again. - and an explanation of the great popularity of the bomberclass. feel free to have it your own way. - and as a little side remark - it doesn t require one to be an elite pilot on the server to think of a theory - i think even a mediocre pilot can figure out an idea why things are the way they are .. doesn t mean they re right or wrong though.
No I'm still not getting it... if I buy a BS and take it against another BS or Cruiser the learning curve will be just as steep.
Problem is that as a capship quite a lot of your fights are against smaller ships, and then you don't learn that much yes.
' Wrote:but then i really do wonder why we got quite some decent bomberpilots around - while ( as you pointed out ) 94% [ or quite many anyway - i was too lazy to make a search for your post ] of the warship players suck. ( which you wrote in another thread ) - that asks the question....
are only dumb people flying warships? or are they harder to learn....
Not "dumb" people, but people who want to take a shortcut.
They either
a) traded from zero to jump straight into a BS/Cruiser without any skill gained before
b) got a fighter/bomber and couldn't fly it properly, so they bought a capships thinking it would "help"
Buying a capship doesn't make you better by itself, you still need to learn.
I get this confirmed over and over again, most recently by a lot of people on the test server who basically never flew a capship before in their life, while they were above average fighter/bomber pilots.
Then they had to use a capship for testing and at once they were better in it than 90% of the capship pilots you see on the server.
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
Anyone care to answer to my question I posted earlier?
How to get in SP money besides grinding it out?
On the topic.
A lone Cap is pretty vulnerable against bombers, but if you go against 2 or more Caps then you really have to be more careful. It's all because Concentrated cap fire can reduce to scrap in a second. The other cap drops your shields and the other makes the kill. You can get unlucky and that's it. Game over.
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