' Wrote:EDIT: After arguing with Mule he came with this reasonable change:
So if he stops (0 speed) at any given point, the pirate can't kill him. I he just keeps running he can kill him.
' Wrote:After debating with Mjolnir:
I propose the rule be changed so that:
If a trader stops after being told to stop by a pirate, a demand HAS to be made before the pirate can kill the trader.
If a trader does not stop after being told to stop by a pirate, the pirate may kill the trader without having to make a demand.
Justice.Served (yeah, don't laugh - I know I'm awful at combat)
I don't think this would be useful. What if the trader stops, then flees with no response? According to Mjolnir, he can't be killed.
As to Mule's suggestion, if the trader doesn't stop, so what? The trader is RP-ing correctly - he's running if he thinks he has a chance (not including oorp and sanction threats here). With a rule like this, there has to be an observable point at which it's being violated. At what point is the trader not RP-ing correctly and is instead violating this suggested rule? Simply saying "after being told to stop" is far too vague.
Upon scanning, I usually say "Halt" and if the trader doesn't, I CD him. Then I might try to RP a little, or make a monetary demand. I KNOW I CAN"T KILL HIM (or attempt to, in my case) until I give the amount. It's no big deal, and I can't understand what the problem here is. Once I state the amount, I can destroy the ship.
Edit: "Halt" is indeed a demand, but it is not one that legalizes killing the trader unless there is an amount attached.
Btw, I know there is way too much idiotic oorp from traders out there - way too much. I also don't have a problem with cutting pirates a break on the rules, but the rules have to be clear, measurable (how to tell when it's been violated), and enforceable.
Point is that when he stops you have time to make your demand.
But yes it's basically impossible to make completely abuser-proof rules.
EDIT: To quote Mule:
To prove that you broke it he would need an SS with him at zero speed and shots comming his way, then next one with the kill message (+ some timerefference).
It's a lot of SS yes.. but reporting trader that F1s is quite a pain as well.
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
So would it be against the rules to run around taking trade ships to 50% or less hull and then just leaving them alone? Maybe blasting off their equipment?
I mean, if a pirate is allowed to inflict damage and cruise disrupt before making a demand, I would think that's legal... as long as I dont kill them.
' Wrote:So would it be against the rules to run around taking trade ships to 50% or less hull and then just leaving them alone? Maybe blasting off their equipment?
I mean, if a pirate is allowed to inflict damage and cruise disrupt before making a demand, I would think that's legal... as long as I dont kill them.
I think this is falling into terrorist territory.
& I also think a load of traders would sell their cargo & then planet dive, buy more stock & move on.
' Wrote:Point is that when he stops you have time to make your demand.
But yes it's basically impossible to make completely abuser-proof rules.
EDIT: To quote Mule:
To prove that you broke it he would need an SS with him at zero speed and shots comming his way, then next one with the kill message (+ some timerefference).
It's a lot of SS yes.. but reporting trader that F1s is quite a pain as well.
Don't you have time when you've CD'd him and he's trying to re-engage cruise? That's when I do it. Or am I missing something else?
Proving the rule is the lesser point. Even with those SS, the rule is still too vague - it doesn't specify where the line is between proper/sensible trader behavior and illegal action.
' Wrote:So would it be against the rules to run around taking trade ships to 50% or less hull and then just leaving them alone? Maybe blasting off their equipment?
I mean, if a pirate is allowed to inflict damage and cruise disrupt before making a demand, I would think that's legal... as long as I dont kill them.
I suppose it depends on how one reads the rule. It says you can inflict that damage "before making the demand"; it's unclear whether the demand is assumed or optional in the rule.
If I'm flying a trader, and a pirate is doing that to me, I'm either going to try to get out - in which case I wouldn't know you weren't going to make a demand - or I'm going to sit and wait until you're done shooting to hear your demand (I've done that). If you're regularly shooting me up for the heck of it, of course, I might post a bounty on you. If I'm running, though, I certainly can't complain you didn't make a demand unless you kill me.
Of course, if the trader stops, doing it seems fairly stupid and rude (as a fellow player). It may still be legal, though.
That said, going around and doing that isn't a great playing style...
I am completely for a change that allows Pirates to use Halt! as legitimate and enforcible command.
I have chars. for each and I believe it is appropriate to the RP on both sides.
My NLH-Lurue doesn't use CD's (maybe he should) but nonetheless the ability to demand that the trader Halt under the threat of attack is logical, reasonable and completely in tune with how a real pirate would be like.
Pirates prey on the weak, it is cost efficient that way. In RL they preffered a quick clean grab, which also uncluded an undamaged ship as the best of the prize (unfortunately for the previous crew). Only the most heavily equipped Pirate ships would even consider turning around to engage the Navy. A pirate ship taking damage is not cost efficient and potentially disastrous since the closest friendly port is far away.
As for Traders, I make alot of money fast. Even if Pirated a couple of times on a trip I still clear profits.
Here is something I am guilty of and so is many of the Traders in the community. BOUNTIES. I am being lazy, I should post bounties for the sake of perpetuating RP. Traders can afford to lose the tax and pay for a bounty as well. I've gone from a Mammoth with 5 mil to a Heavy Tanker that currently has 400 mil in less than a month. Bounty posting time, help in Sirius's economy and improve RP server wide.
Sorry my two cents
Quote:I think this is falling into terrorist territory.
& I also think a load of traders would sell their cargo & then planet dive, buy more stock & move on.
You asked for venting - best I can do blush.gif
Problem is, if they land anywhere to sell their cargo, they cant planet dive afterwards to repair their equipment (your equipment setup is 'saved' whenever you land anywhere).
They would either have to get rid of their cargo and suicide (the cargo would be ejected or destroyed during the suicide), or they could land, sell the cargo, and have to buy/repair any damaged equipment.
Still, the point really is to harass the traders - they have no intention of paying in general. I see too many who say "Just kill me so i can start this trade route over again" - that's not very In-RP in my opinion. So, instead of killing them, you leave them with the choice of losing their cargo or losing equally as much money because they have to repair and replace equipment.
An Ideal ship for that would be a gunboat with a few shieldbusters and a loadout of missiles.
' Wrote:Problem is, if they land anywhere to sell their cargo, they cant planet dive afterwards to repair their equipment (your equipment setup is 'saved' whenever you land anywhere).
They would either have to get rid of their cargo and suicide (the cargo would be ejected or destroyed during the suicide), or they could land, sell the cargo, and have to buy/repair any damaged equipment.
Look at you getting all technical - it was ment to be a crap vent. But yes your right.
I really don't get what all the ruckus is about.... I like that the 4 hour rule does not exist for traders, means I get to pirate them over and over when they try and use the same route over and over.
You really don't HAVE to say halt, cds work too. I do anyway just to let them know.
The cruiser thing... well it is kinda understandable. I think everyone is trying to limit the arms race on traders. Do you really want to have to try and pirate someone with a BH Dessi escort? I really don't want to have to NEED a cruiser to pirate.
Common guys, pirating has been going on here for a long time, the system works pretty good in my humble opinion.