Xeno Blazer

[mjolnir]

ok...so lets see...size issue...well...starblazer is very large fighter comapring to liberator, or even eagle for that matter...check it...you might be surprized...
I think this ship shouldn't be in Liberator class...starblazer almost is...

people mention Xenos here a lot...if you wish to make this ship for Xenos, then make it in HF class, but real HF...with 6 proper guns, superior agility to VHF's and ability to fire those guns...(like stilleto or Valkyrie)
about those guns comparison you mention...i have a civ bomber with 4 of Black widows...and with that huge power plant ship feels when i fire them...they eat trough 9k of eagle's powerplant like butter, add to that 2 debies who are also power hungry and you have extreemly powerful fighter, who cant bring transport shiled down cause it cant sustain more then 2 seconds of fire...and what BW is among lvl 9guns, that is sutinger among lvl 8 guns...

not to mention only 550 range...you must practically be in face of your enemie just to be able to hit him...

many people complain that xenos ram bigger ships in fights...after u get to 500m to fire you dont have much room manouver...

I took it that Starblazer is Starflea with extra bits and pieces => about twice starflea size... and comparing it to eagle is just funny.. eagle has really wide wings...

well my stats are HF ones.. modeled after the best HF in game...Taidan one ...

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Disclaimer: everything from here and down is just weapon argumentation that actually has nothing to do with this thread.

Eagle has 10.4k powerplant not 9k.. and it's a standard weak VHF powerplant.. same for RC, BD, Talon

@Blackwidow... right... would you pick hellfury over it? I doubt that... on fighters maybe.. but against transports/GBs.. helfurry is hopeless.

I can take down 100k transport shield in a Slipstream no sweat...So I did some calculations (because I'm lazy to make a new Xeno char and test it.. and I guess I miss university on 3rd day of my vacation:))

Slipstream (8000k powerplant / 800 (per sec I guess) recharge)

shield damage per shot:
2*367 (debils) + 494 (adv. debil) + 190 (Kraken I) + 2* 223 (HFs) = 1864
shield damage against graviton shields (90++% of transports)
2*367*0.8 + 494*0.8 + 190*1.2 + 2*223= 1637
energy:
2*48 + 90 + 80 + 2* 130 = 526

Eagle (10400/1100)

shield damage per shot
4*290 + 2*494 = 2148
shield damage against graviton shields (90++% of transports)
4*290*1.2+2*494*0.8= 2182
energy:
4*170+2*90=860

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Firing time:
(note that if my assumption that the recharge is per second is wrong.. it still serves as useful comparison)

Slipstream
4*526 - 800 (recharge) = 1304
8000(powerplant)/1304 = ~6.1 secs

Eagle
4*860 - 1100 = 2400
10400/2400 = 4.3 s

Damage dealt (very roughly):

Slipstream
4*1637*6.1 = 39 942

Eagle

4*2182*4.3 = 37 792

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My conclusion
Damage dealt is almost the same.

While Slipstream does this damage in 6 seconds, Eagle does it in 4.

In real fight you can't just sit there and shoot.. so you fire in some 2-3 second intervals while dodging... Eagle is bigger but has stronger shield (10 k vs 5k) and armor (also 10k vs 5k)... so I'd say that traders shield will go down just about as fast using both ships.

Now one important point: They have hull armor as well...the slipstream setup is very anti-shield optimized... so it will be scratching the hull with it's 1273 hull damage per shot... while Eagle will blast it at 2320.

"Can't take a transport shield down" seems a bit far-fetched to me.


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Suntiger vs Kraken MK I:

Suntiger
365/79

Kraken MKI
381/79

Both particle, suntiger has less range yes....otherwise it does look very much like the same gun (best lvl 8 in game)

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Sure you would not say that poor underdog Xenos have crappy guns would you?

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[UnknownObject]

before getting your hopes up high - i remember an official statement saying "xenos will NOT get any exclusive ships" - but maybe i remember something wrong there...

I pm'd Igiss about this last time that this was raised... He said that he had no objections. I think this rumour is quite damaging.

I think we are all concerned that PVP whores will chose the Xenos because of their terrorist ids. However I don't think that one halfway decent fighter, no more powerful than the eagle they already fly, is going to make much of a difference. It just allows them to be more in RP than having to trek halfway across the Universe to get a ship.

I think class is important. The eagle is the lightest of the VHFs, best agility , smallest power plant, etc.
That doesn't leave much room for manoevering... If we go for a HF how is this going to be different from an Eagle? Surely it will end up with nearly the same stats? Or is this what we want? The eagle does fit the feel for how Xeno ships should be.

The Xenos are quirky and therefore some quirky stats might be in order. To me Xenos ships should be all about offence, but something has got to give for the sake of balance. I'd go for fragile hull, good agility, small shield, big power plant in regards to the norm for the classes. I'll leave it to others to propose the actual numbers.

[UnknownObject]

This ship would be a Xeno varient of the Civi line, say made of cut up blazers and glued together with extra armour plates. We would also campaign tirlessly to have it sold in Tau 45, the Xeno guard system so no-one could exploit it. All that need to be done is the XA raising, *gasps* one billion credits.

Was that said in a Dr Evil sort of voice:D

Where do we send our donations? If I see you online I'd like to corntribute something... from my Xeno past.

[chopper]

Yup, just to add that Suntiger is one of the best class 8's on Disco.
Kraken 1 is better, but the difference is smaller then with Kraken 2 and BW.

My Eagle used 2 BW's, 2 Suntigers and 2 Adv. Debils.
And I never had problems with taking Transport shields down.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[UnknownObject]

Yup, just to add that Suntiger is one of the best class 8's on Disco.
Kraken 1 is better, but the difference is smaller then with Kraken 2 and BW.

My Eagle used 2 BW's, 2 Suntigers and 2 Adv. Debils.
And I never had problems with taking Transport shields down.

Agreed Chopper ST's are great level 8 guns... But they are still level 8.

They don't really measure up to level 9s. I've not done the maths but my guess is your damage per second and energy usage per second with the above set up is similar or worse than most factions just using their level 9 guns.

On the plus side Xeno guns are fast, just irritatingly short ranged.

[I_m_rdy]

Have missed it.

Nooooooo. Please "I m mdllng". You can do it better. I know you can do it. I'm begging you to do it. I'm forcing you to do it:crazy:.

Take the Starflea as base for a fourth ship of that line. The Starblazer is already completed. Please do not add further stuff onto the Starblazer.

Respectful
AoM

My point is simply that this ship is a tribute to the Colorado Blazers. Xenos wouldn't care if it's a complete ship, they would try to get the best out of it.

This Xeno Blazer will stay a Xeno Blazer. And it's a HF. With 5 guns.

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[aster]

My point is simply that this ship is a tribute to the Colorado Blazers. Xenos wouldn't care if it's a complete ship, they would try to get the best out of it.

This Xeno Blazer will stay a Xeno Blazer. And it's a HF. With 5 guns.

As a complete modelling novice does it have to be symetrical?
(I believe the hitbox is regardless...)
I just think some asymetry may add to its "welded together from scrap" look.

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[McNeo]

I would also vote HF with 5 gun slots, all class 9's to make up for the lack of a 6th level 8 which isnt there. This thing needs to be similar to a Hammerhead in stats, but slightly faster with less gun slots. Also, it needs a torp slot.

It needs to be slightly faster than the Eagle and have a Hammerhead or Centurion powerplant too...

Sure, 5 Blackwidows hurts, but how long can you fire them?

Also, in my 6 Blackwidowed Eagle, it takes eons to remove a transport shield (adv transport one) and I can't get through a GB shield, despite the fact that it is good vs graviton. So at least one of those 5 gun slots on this proposed fighter will be a debilitator...

So, summary:

Heavy Fighter
5 class 9 gun slots
CM
CD/Torp
Mine

Armour around 700 below the Hammerhead.

[I_m_rdy]

As a complete modelling novice does it have to be symetrical?
(I believe the hitbox is regardless...)
I just think some asymetry may add to its "welded together from scrap" look.

Who said I'm gonna make it symmetrical? I have to create some custom hull panels for this job...

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[Doom]

completely off topic

I took it that Starblazer is Starflea with extra bits and pieces => about twice starflea size... and comparing it to eagle is just funny.. eagle has really wide wings...

well my stats are HF ones.. modeled after the best HF in game...Taidan one ...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: everything from here and down is just weapon argumentation that actually has nothing to do with this thread.

Eagle has 10.4k powerplant not 9k.. and it's a standard weak VHF powerplant.. same for RC, BD, Talon

@Blackwidow... right... would you pick hellfury over it? I doubt that... on fighters maybe.. but against transports/GBs.. helfurry is hopeless.

I can take down 100k transport shield in a Slipstream no sweat...So I did some calculations (because I'm lazy to make a new Xeno char and test it.. and I guess I miss university on 3rd day of my vacation:))

Slipstream (8000k powerplant / 800 (per sec I guess) recharge)

shield damage per shot:
2*367 (debils) + 494 (adv. debil) + 190 (Kraken I) + 2* 223 (HFs) = 1864
shield damage against graviton shields (90++% of transports)
2*367*0.8 + 494*0.8 + 190*1.2 + 2*223= 1637
energy:
2*48 + 90 + 80 + 2* 130 = 526

Eagle (10400/1100)

shield damage per shot
4*290 + 2*494 = 2148
shield damage against graviton shields (90++% of transports)
4*290*1.2+2*494*0.8= 2182
energy:
4*170+2*90=860

------------------------
Firing time:
(note that if my assumption that the recharge is per second is wrong.. it still serves as useful comparison)

Slipstream
4*526 - 800 (recharge) = 1304
8000(powerplant)/1304 = ~6.1 secs

Eagle
4*860 - 1100 = 2400
10400/2400 = 4.3 s

Damage dealt (very roughly):

Slipstream
4*1637*6.1 = 39 942

Eagle

4*2182*4.3 = 37 792

----------------
My conclusion
Damage dealt is almost the same.

While Slipstream does this damage in 6 seconds, Eagle does it in 4.

In real fight you can't just sit there and shoot.. so you fire in some 2-3 second intervals while dodging... Eagle is bigger but has stronger shield (10 k vs 5k) and armor (also 10k vs 5k)... so I'd say that traders shield will go down just about as fast using both ships.

Now one important point: They have hull armor as well...the slipstream setup is very anti-shield optimized... so it will be scratching the hull with it's 1273 hull damage per shot... while Eagle will blast it at 2320.

"Can't take a transport shield down" seems a bit far-fetched to me.
----
Suntiger vs Kraken MK I:

Suntiger
365/79

Kraken MKI
381/79

Both particle, suntiger has less range yes....otherwise it does look very much like the same gun (best lvl 8 in game)

---------------------------------

Sure you would not say that poor underdog Xenos have crappy guns would you?

ok let see the size :
starblazer and shield compared with eagle




Starblazer with shield compared with Liberty LF

All ships are shown in their default sizes...so much about star line being small

now the weapons;
it is not my intention to say xenos have weak weapons...no...but they have many flaws...like short rage and enormous power usage. I do speak from experience, and on my eagle i had various weapon set ups from furys to full black widows...
so from experience, when one eagle goes to pirate one mid sized transport with average 6 turrets, who have twice the range, almost twice the speed and deal about same damage per second, life is a bit more complicated then simple math...
Pilot with black widows must be very close to target if he wants to fire, close to his target also means that he is easier target too...with transport turret going 1200, it passes 500 in less then half the second...all that harder to avoid...in dodging every meter counts...

on another note...you speak of hellfuries...well on my Viper i use Vampires...they are very similar to hellfuries but deal less damage and use less power...they share same speed and range...and i never had trouble in any fight with them...so if i had hacker char i would use hellfuries...