Keepers in Connecticut?? oh NOEZZ!!! THEYRE OORP FOR BEING IN THE OORP SYSTEM!!!! o.O
Seiously, doing training weakens you seriously, 1) because you're going to be damaged already and 2) you (at least I don't) have a fully equipped ship, I don't have CDs or CMs and sometimes not a full bot/bat loadout. Now, combine that with people's tendencies to attack Keepers just because they're Keepers and you have a situation where they cannot reasonably practice in their home system, so they went to the ooRP system.
As for the keepers in NY and Corsairs in NY, such a stink was raised about the Corsairs because it was multiple times per day that that would happen. Keepers have been there a little too much IMO but not nearly what the corsair (independents mostly, no offense TBH/Benitiz) were doing.
Edit: the secrecy thing, I would assume that you would have to be living under a rock to NOT know about Nomads, Rheinland would have used them as their explination for getting out of essentially war crimes against Kusari and Bertonia. Now the Dom'Kavash and their ties to the Nomads might not be well known, and the fact of just -how- powerful the Nomads are would be hidden from the public.
Also, a RP critique, it seemed in the SP that the Nomads avoided confrontation and preferred to let other people take the fall or do the work, in here it seems that the Nomads just went to a full-scale war with the humans in the Omicrons...is there a way to RP another "infestation"?
' Wrote:Also, a RP critique, it seemed in the SP that the Nomads avoided confrontation and preferred to let other people take the fall or do the work, in here it seems that the Nomads just went to a full-scale war with the humans in the Omicrons...is there a way to RP another "infestation"?
Infestation works when both parties are willing to go along on that one, and that, unfortunately, doesn't happen most of the time. Plus I doubt we have any choice as regards Omicrons, since the amounts of opponents we are getting there almost every time is really big. Thing is, it's often them coming for us, not us going after them you see. For example a couple of days ago, for a few days what I saw was a bretonian battleship logging on every time we log in as well, hanging around in delta and always coming after us each time. And there are many others like that. How can you maintain secrecy and go via infestation when you basically undock from Planet Xerna to see a liberty cruiser facing you with forward gun right there. So, as you see it takes both sides to cooperate to create roleplay, not just one.
i m getting a bit tired of "its them coming for us" thing. that has been the beginning of the keepers. - now, its usually the keepers picking the fights. i m usually observing who is where when the keepers fly out of iota. and, no, there has rarely been anything like a fleet of indies or whatever not that met the keepers or worse, hunted them "cause they are keepers".
the keepers are not martyers here. and again, meet others with RP and reason, and you may expect to get it in return, - meet others with simplified RP , and be asured you get it in return, too. i know its not a nice trade - but thats what is to be expected.
i appreciated the RP effords made ( mostly in the beginning ) - but there s work to do to achive that level again.
- since you, treewyrm, has left the server some time ago , there was a relative inactivity of the nomads. the wahtever we had "defense" in delta was not needed anymore, and whatever story one could have made out of it dried out.
engagements with the keepers have been most unpleasent from a players point of view. - after the alpha status of the keepers and some indie bashing, - people were more afraid of sanctions than of the keepers. with yelling that people that happened to be there were cap-whoring, ooRP teaming up etc. .
the very last engagement that i participated in was when you, as the harbinger was chased out of delta by a defense force of a cruiser, a battleship, a gunship and me ( fighter ). - the replies i got from you were
PM: "munching popcorn" - while you were flying towards iota JH, then another "munching <whatever>" ( no, i did not really consider that utterly funny ) - and when you jumped and half the defenders stayed in delta ( hence they were defending and not hunting ) i get a PM from you "so much for capwhoring" - no, i wasn t pleased. - i asked you about how comes that you blew up a lvl 40 trader in delta in your battleship before and now accuse those that defend for capwhoring, - and you told me "you re an indie flying a battleship , so shut it"
this is the RP i got from you. - now that is why i do not like the faction anymore. - i thought it had potential, would bring RP and a lot of tension to the sector. but i haven t seen much of it. - and as a character in RP, i am not willing to make steps towards a race thats greatest ambition is to destroy mankind. - so if you don t bring RP ( with transparency ) to the players, you will not receive much back.
this is the bitter experience made with the nomad faction - without the usual politeness. mind, its happened before you left - now that you returned, i have just avoided the keepers.
Again, right now I came into the game and saw similar picture, with caps in Iota. Where you there? Not anywhere near, like on many many occasions. Thing here is that you haven't seen all the engagements, I'd say have not even the majority. Just because one of your characters stationed in there doesn't mean that you watch the system 24/7 for all engagements there. You're not omnipresent, neither do I but I at least know what engagements I've been myself and always get full reports with screenshots from my members. And for most of the part you are just sitting shut in Freeport IX. Yet you pass quick judgments. Especially the one about when you've been hunting nomads intensively and wondered when your KoS status would be lifted off.
Finally, what I PMed you in-game was not a roleplay. What makes you think it was one when I clearly stated it wasn't I have no idea, but that is up to you. I just sat down and enjoyed the capital ship fleet swarming delta. You've kept PMing me saying that we capwhore all the time, yet right in front of you were they, so it was my sarcasm reply as I got tired of that endless gunboat whore moaning, KoS moaning, etc. Oh no, they were hunting as clearly stated by the messages in system chat, searching around jumpholes, nebulae, or have you missed those? I must admit, they did it quite well, almost got me there. I've tired of your moaning, looking for loopholes, much like you tried with your battleship by docking and undocking from Gammu in an instant fully repaired and rearmed after taking a fight and then ridiculing us in ooc, yet now you talk about roleplay whereas just looking for advantage in game. And, of course, you being that person who calls every joe and his dog to Delta at any sign of Keepers. Ironic, isn't it? And that you have even called upon the help of an indie battleship all across the Sirius, a person whom happened to be on skype with me at the moment and we had a laugh about that. Is that a backdoor I hear swinging? Someone left it open wide. Tsk, tsk. Complaining about gunboats, oh yes, like I'm going to come and fight your zoner jug on my fighter, yup, setting course out, just need to figure out what cannon I'd like to die from or perhaps how to get you to Omi Major again. Heh, there are different traders around. Some have nomad cargo, some have nomad thrusters, some even just stop and shoot back. Tell me what was the name of the trader so I could look through the screenshot archive, if its still there.
But regardless of that there are changes to come. Some changes already made and some interesting development too. I guess we'll see what will come out of it. But I stand clear, there were so many numerous engagements with forces four-five times larger as in numbers and ship classes, I've got those in archive. But we learn to survive, if it is gunboats we rely to survive then it'll be them, if it's bombers our survival demands it is them being used too, etc. But coming out only on fighters and watching capfleet consisting of independents just to please someone. Well. I'm not going to lay down, roll over and die just because some people would like so to happen. No words can counter those.
Times however change, slowly but they do, and things lately were less on that problem, so we switched to using fighters a lot. There was more roleplay, and less engagements. Though once again, some seeing that they just go capspam again. Now that is something I cannot do anything about.
When a capital ship fleet hunting a single gunboat (or even a single nomad fighter which I happen to use to irritate those fleets around) throughout the whole Omicrons up to Omicron Major saying "we'll defend! lulz" and gloriously smashing against the planet in there, that's not defense, that's hypocrisy.
And I'm not here to please you specifically, Jinx, not to please your expectations, but neither I expect anything of that from you. It's about balancing between many factors, to find what is efficient, what is good for roleplay, what is harming it and what can be dangerous to integrity of the concept, and so on and on. There are many discussions inside going on about those things. Numerous outside factors to be taken into the account. Behavior of other players that very from one to another in a high degree. I cannot bend to someone's only opinion to make sure that person gets pleased, I'm not a multi-core multi-tasking wish master. I listen to suggestions, take notes of them and then decide what can be done about those, weighting them out by statistics, looking at possible outcomes, etc, to see if those suggestions will bring more harm than good, if those suggestions will be devastating for the game, or will they really improve the quality of roleplay and enhance the playtime in game. And sometimes even the best intentions can be exploited turning them upside down, much like it has happened with the "no attacks on non-nomad cargo holders regardless of ship class". It was a good idea that has been completely abused when people figured it out and started exploiting it to win the battles by amassing fleets all without any nomad cargo only to attack when they had clear upper hand, but until then claiming to be "invincible" citing said idea. You ask for full transparency of mechanics but I'm not going to provide them on demand, because of those algorithms abuse. Been there, done that.
Quote:i m getting a bit tired of "its them coming for us" thing. that has been the beginning of the keepers. - now, its usually the keepers picking the fights. i m usually observing who is where when the keepers fly out of iota. and, no, there has rarely been anything like a fleet of indies or whatever not that met the keepers or worse, hunted them "cause they are keepers".
the keepers are not martyers here. and again, meet others with RP and reason, and you may expect to get it in return, - meet others with simplified RP , and be asured you get it in return, too. i know its not a nice trade - but thats what is to be expected.
i appreciated the RP effords made ( mostly in the beginning ) - but there s work to do to achive that level again.
- since you, treewyrm, has left the server some time ago , there was a relative inactivity of the nomads. the wahtever we had "defense" in delta was not needed anymore, and whatever story one could have made out of it dried out.
engagements with the keepers have been most unpleasent from a players point of view. - after the alpha status of the keepers and some indie bashing, - people were more afraid of sanctions than of the keepers. with yelling that people that happened to be there were cap-whoring, ooRP teaming up etc. .
Let me just give you a few examples of both cap whoring and "them coming for us", I've not been in the Keepers that long and I've did my fair share of RP with all those who RPed back at me. Now..from my experience, especially in the last week or so it went like this, and I'll name two situations. First a group of 4 Keepers, 2 bombers, 1 assassin and 1 LF, went on a recon mission, out of Iota and towards Alaska via the Minor JH. As we arrived in Minor, we noticed there is 1 person in that system, now, the Delta JH in minor is about 35k away from Toledo and that person that we saw was running towards Toledo, we followed to scan him...as we approached Toledo in cruise, that lovely planet 35k away, we were greeted by an Osiris, 2 outcast destroyers, a zoner destroyer, a gunboat, and 2 fighters. I can't exactly remember the names so I assume they were indies as I just told the Keepers to run away back to Delta.
The other example I can put forward was in Delta though, we were just happily flying in Iota, me and a friend of mine, both on bombers, and decided to take a look at what's going on in Delta, we noticed there were a few people there, mainly by checking the lvls...fighters and bombers. So we went there in hope to find some RP and of course scan them for equipment. As we entered Delta, even before we announced ourselves, there was a system wide message "Keepers in system" and a request to hunt us down. We proceeded to fly into the upper planes and hid there, mainly keeping quiet as to see what's going to happen. There was a significant increase of activity suddenly as ships from surrounding systems started to fly into Delta, it was quite amazing to see them all working together to "Save humanity" from out 2 bombers. There was a corsair dreadnought, at least another battleship judging by the level and several other vessels above lvl 70. There was no RP on system chat except the occasional "Where are they?", "Are you keepers hiding?:)" And such things.
Now, I do not want to make us martyrs, we on occasion fly out in force and then we are very careful as to whom we target, why, where and so on. We rarely go out of Delta, and the surrounding two or three systems, and it has so far always been with a RP reason, I urge you to have some patience and give us a chance to post our stories while we finish them, we may be aliens in game but out of it we're still humans with the limitations that such a thing brings. As jobs, lack of imagination, writer's block and such. Most of us, including myself, do not particularly like being flamed, and if we even make a single mistake, we do get that a lot. Much more than people generally get it for doing the same thing on other chars. Why? Well because we're running a faction that is not completely accepted yet, and because we mainly rely on your opinions to make it work. So I'd just like to see if we could try to work on the future of this and try to let go of old rivalries of the past.
Quote:But coming out only on fighters and watching capfleet consisting of independents just to please someone. Well. I'm not going to lay down, roll over and die just because some people would like so to happen. No words can counter those.
Hear hear. This is the same situation we have with Battleships. I am not going to scrap my fleet because somebody thinks its 'wrong' to maximize fleet potential. Since when did that happen? Obviously if its unrealistic then sure, but remember, the Keepers are not the Nomads of Singleplayer. They are not that massive swarm of Nomads that Edison Trent miraculously manages to maul in that cheap little Barracuda, they're regular players with ships that have only marginally, if any, better capabilites than other ships. This is the origin of bomberwhoring and capwhoring, and yes, I have seen it in action.
Quote:Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen
' Wrote:Are the keeper ships seriously better then anything other players can get?
Nope, compare full stats if you want to. For instance Nomad Bomber has 18000 armor and less maneuverable than KU/BD bomber, RHB has 21800 and more bats/bots. Is it better? Same can be said about all others. Those are normal ships apart from nice texture and organic looks.
On a positive note to lighten everybody's passionate "debating", I do concurr that Keepers make life here somewhat interesting. And to those who speculate that they're stupid and just perform the menial tasks that they were genetically programmed to do, I say that they are programmed to the degree of robots. Just look at Tree's signature.
For those who are too lazy:
"Lose. Analyze. Find mistakes. Win.
Win. Analyze. Find mistakes. Be more efficient."
All robots who are given the ability to adjust mistakes will in the end develope greater intelligence, seeing their own single-mindedness a flaw. They drop a box. They pick the box back up, adjust the angle of their wrist, walk a different way, and they're good.
Comparison... Drop box, analyze, find flaws in posture, carry box!
Carry box, find flaws, carry box faster to destination.
Next note:
Obviously the nomads are procreating... Or, maybe they made a baby nomad test tube facility with their minds on their planet in Iota. Do you think that the Dom'Kavash made them this way? Probably not. Generally you don't give things that might rebel with super-powerful weapons that can explode suns the ability to multiply. That would just be stupid.
"Why?" those who aren't really paying attention may ask? Because, they would most likely overpower and swarm the Dom'Kavash, ending in their destruction. Which might have happened since nobody really knows.
Okay... Now for the PvP issue.
I do concurr that more interaction is necessary. All of my experiences with them have resulted in:
Keepers: *CRUISE!*
Me: Uh oh... I mean you no harm, mighty Nomads! Spare my meager life!
Keepers: *CRUISE!*
Me: He-Hello?
Keepers:
Keepers: *Shoot, explode*
I suppose, by technicality you are RPing Nomads. Shoot, kill, protect our space. But you have to improvise and spread yourself apart from the normal nomads, otherwise this kind of "RP" doesn't belong on Disco. All the pirate factions don't sit by lanes in Daggers or Bloodhounds, waiting for Cryer convoys. They go about their business in a different way. I don't really have any examples off-hand, but you get my point.
Even though I may not like most of you for certain... Happenings such as the listed dialogue above and... Exploding my battleship while stuck in a base. It's still not worth all this trouble that everybody is making for the possibility of a disbanding. And even if people are aiming for you to get more RP, I don't think all this ranting and raving will solve it. At most it will go on for pages and pages until an admin locks it. Instead of saying, "These are your problems, you suck." Try just saying, "Do this, it would be fun."
No, not even, "Here is a problem, do this instead." Just... Say nice things. No nice things with a negative twist. It wont get anybody anywhere.
Interaction is always a tricky thing. We experiment with different ideas and behaviors, sometimes aggressive, sometimes neutral. So we gather from those, to see what is better, to see what is not. There are both examples of neutrality as well as outright hostility. A friendliness perhaps too? Different experiences, some players have seen one but not the other and vice versa. There is that element of unpredictability to spice encounters. It's always a risk but who knows how it may turn the next moment? A bit of random factor here instead of railroad reactions. Their behavior is a tricky thing. Today they pass peacefully minding their own business to Omegas, tomorrow they assemble small group and attack. A battle takes place between human hostile players, the outcome becomes less predictable if we engage in, sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. Again, randomness. Factor of uncertainty. Some like it, some don't, it's natural there are different opinions on the matter.
Anyway, it's getting late here, so I'm off. Thanks to everyone for the input, especially for the constructive ideas, I've made some notes and will see what can come out of that. Some things will, some, unfortunately, cannot. Time to publish some stories as well. The session is over, for now.
p.s. Nice post, Magoo. Liked that robot analogy.:))) Time to grab my box. Anyway, stuck battleship was ages ago, might as well post something of a recent times, for instance this month.
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