' Wrote:I think this is falling into terrorist territory.
& I also think a load of traders would sell their cargo & then planet dive, buy more stock & move on.
' Wrote:I really don't get what all the ruckus is about.... I like that the 4 hour rule does not exist for traders, means I get to pirate them over and over when they try and use the same route over and over.
You really don't HAVE to say halt, cds work too. I do anyway just to let them know.
The cruiser thing... well it is kinda understandable. I think everyone is trying to limit the arms race on traders. Do you really want to have to try and pirate someone with a BH Dessi escort? I really don't want to have to NEED a cruiser to pirate.
Common guys, pirating has been going on here for a long time, the system works pretty good in my humble opinion.
Halt I maintain is a demand, that has the consqequence of death if not followed. As compairison try to run from a gang intent on mugging you. If you fail to escape or beat them down then exspect poor treatment at least if not death.
I agree with you completely. This is not about hamstringing traders but keeping pirate from being further hamstrung. Be low is the post from adim that started this descussion.
I've seen several posts recently that demonstrate that many of you pirates have some misconceptions about what it is that you are allowed to do.
QUOTE6.19 Pirates and terrorists have a right to deal as much damage as they see fit before or after demanding money from a trader ship, but killing trader ship before demanding money is not allowed. Attacking traders or demanding cargo is not allowed for cruisers and battleships, unless cruisers and battleship belong to Terrorist ID or Phantom ID owner.
There are no exceptions to this. "Halt" or "stop" followed by being ignored is NOT a legitimate excuse to blow up a ship under any circumstances.
Further proof can be found in this sanction report, and this warning from an Admin.
You can yell "stop" all you want, but until you make a financial demand of some kind, a kill shot is a violation of Server Rule 6.19.
"Stop or die" does NOT constitute Piracy, it constitutes terrorism, which is illegal if you don't have a terrorist ID.
Speaking as both a pirate and a trader, it is NOT the trader's responsibility to stop everytime a pirate demands it. It is the "responsibility" of the pirate to force the trader into a corner that he can't escape from. If the pirate can't do that, he loses and the trader wins. If the trader can't escape or kill the pirate, then he ought to pay the pirate to avoid the destruction of his ship. If the pirate cannot corner the trader then he shouldn't expect the trader to do him any favors.
"If a trader stops after being told to stop by a pirate, a demand HAS to be made before the pirate can kill the trader.
If a trader does not stop after being told to stop by a pirate, the pirate may kill the trader without having to make a demand."
I like this one... That's how I'd do it in perfect world, but with all the rules in place I make my demand before blasting them to smithereens and sometimes it works... and they do pay up in the end...
A trader that stops and roleplays deserves protection by the rules... a trader that doesn't, and tries to escape while you talk... (pretty much he's done in for by the time you CD'd him) and state your demand. Spaming the cruise, and such doesn't deserve protection.
Sometimes demands are unresonable, sometimes pirates attack and nearly destroy the ship before demands are made.
Rules were set to support roleplay, not to omit it. There's even a rule that states that you must follow the spirit of rules.
The rules regarding piracy support comunication between pirates and traders... Nothing puts a smile on your face like a trader haggling for his life... Then again nothing sadens me more than the "2 mil to pass" (and that's a good one).
In that spirit hunting down and killing a trader that fails to stop is perfectly resonable, it is not very fun or sporting. I usually manage 5 to 6 lines, regarding Poor Pilots fundation and how much they need their money... Even a slow typer can squeeze in a demand while taking down the trader... Realy not hard.
I thereby agree with the Muleo's rule, I think it shows most spirit. The moment trader stops he deserves your roleplayed demands...
Donate to the Poor Pilot's Fundation via Sirius Bank /givecash GreenHawk 1000000 now, and support poor pilots sirius wide!
Skype: jure.grbec
My primary char: Jose El Nino - Corsair Elder captain of the SS Greenhawk
Currently Inactive due to pursuit of life long dreams, will be back...*edited* As promised am back.
I like Mule's suggestion most as well. I just maintain Stop is a demand and punishable by death if ignored. It is obvious if they are talking to you and if its not then either you or they are dense. Traders check your scanners. Pirate dont think your going to be taken seriously if they are out of range.
I have a new //ive seen it before// cracker... Jumping throu the jumphole back and forth to evade the pirate... is that legal?
Donate to the Poor Pilot's Fundation via Sirius Bank /givecash GreenHawk 1000000 now, and support poor pilots sirius wide!
Skype: jure.grbec
My primary char: Jose El Nino - Corsair Elder captain of the SS Greenhawk
Currently Inactive due to pursuit of life long dreams, will be back...*edited* As promised am back.
Fellow hoodlum sanctioned this as a lame tactic and sited that it would not be in RP either. As Jump drives would require time to charge between jumps. But there is no rule against it.
' Wrote:I like Mule's suggestion most as well. I just maintain Stop is a demand and punishable by death if ignored. It is obvious if they are talking to you and if its not then either you or they are dense. Traders check your scanners. Pirate dont think your going to be taken seriously if they are out of range.
I see the "halt" demand by itself as too open to abuse and misunderstanding. There had better be a specific trader name involved at the least in order for that to work.
Frankly, I don't really see the point in changing the current rule - I stink as a pirate, but I've not had trouble typing out an amount. If you're close enough to be a threat (to warrant trader compliance with a "halt"), then be a threat - CD him, shoot his shields a bit, etc. You'll have time to state the amount.
Also, ScornStar, remember that the admin you quote here is also head of an unlawful faction that pirates...
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You all need to stop saying that my post about this subject was "from an Admin", because it wasn't. I wasn't an Admin when I posted that. I wasn't even a global moderator. Go check the date on the post. I was a player just like anyone else, who was seeing a lot of fellow players do things that could get them sanctioned, and I provided ironclad and irrefutable proof of that by linking a sanction thread and an Admin statement on the subject.
The fact that none of you paid any attention to those facts proves beyond any doubt that no matter what the rules are some people are going to refuse to understand them.
There is no "new rule" and there is no "rule change". The rules have been the same for months and months, and nothing has been destroyed or disrupted by it.
The entire Lane Hackers faction operates as pirates following the rules as I described them, and our ability to pirate does not suffer for it in the slightest. If yours does, then your technique is at fault and its just a red herring to blame your failures on the rules.
There is never any reason that a pirate is forced into saying "2 million or die". You can simply say "drop all your cargo" and it accomplishes the same thing and possesses far more roleplay value for many different circumstances.
In any case, once I get done with the economic changes I'm working on, traders will almost always lose more credits by dying than by paying pirates (unless they relegate themselves to much less profitable routes). That alone will solve much of the issues with traders who don't value the welfare of their ship.
Check out my Trade Development Blog
for all the latest news on Nerfs and Final Nails, or to request trade changes.
' Wrote:You all need to stop saying that my post about this subject was "from an Admin", because it wasn't. I wasn't an Admin when I posted that.
The fact that none of you paid any attention to those facts proves beyond any doubt that no matter what the rules are some people are going to refuse to understand them.
Pardon me, Xoria. I was just referring to what had been mentioned before.
I completely agree with your points; I think the hypothetical discussion was the result of some intense frustration, due especially to traders flying, but not really playing, in the sense of participating in the community.