Pirate ID insufficient.

[Equinox]

Mmkay, so Unioners are pirates too. Alrighty then, if someone could draft a replacement for my entry there that would be wonderful. And the discussion with Corsairs, while inconclusive, everyone can agree that they shouldn't get terrorist ID, right? Same with Outcasts?

No they shouldn't, theres nothing ever mentioned about Outcasts ingame/cannon that says there terrorists.

I'm starting to think that they should get their own customized IDs, given their status as rogue nations that do a lot of stuff considered illegal everywhere else...

The Corsairs are not just pirates either, they if anything are a bigger organization than even the Outcasts (It says ingame the Corsairs are the largest criminal organization in Sirius), For the most part Corsairs and Outcasts are alike in many many ways and thats how they where meant to be, they both have extensive smuggling operations that have made them both wealthy, they both do still pirate (thats a fact as you get scanned and pirated by Outcast npcs all the time all over the place).

Now both Corsairs and Outcast alike are both houses in there own right pretty much, just because Corsairs are more "like" normal pirates doesn't change the fact Outcasts are too, they both mirror each other perfect which was how they wanted the game to be so don't change it just because a few of you have an opinion it should be another way.

Apart from that I agree that the small factions like Farmers Alliance that are fighting there house (that has in there cannon) that they are terrorists is fine but don't slap the terrorist tag on factions that are not terrorists.

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[Unseelie]

I'm going to have to say, again, that it isn't really about Terrorist factions.
Its about the so called 'pirate' factions.
They aren't really all pirates.

On Outcasts, they aren't pirates. There aren't any Outcasts that live anywhere near Liberty. They run drugs to liberty, and that's the only reason they show up in Liberty, using Rochester and Buffalo and Mactan as safehouses and stopovers.

On NPCs....Bretonians demand cargo, BHG demand cargo. The fact is, 'Pirate' does not describe these groups.
Pirate is a cop-out in the ID system. Look at the Pirate IDs: its simply a cookie cutter design for anything that is not a citizen of one of the four houses. The Pirate ID does not fit most of the Criminal groups in Sirius, they may not fit the Terrorist group either. Those are the choices we currently have. Terrorist or Pirate.

The discussion has changed, people, try and keep up. Yes, there are many groups that should move to a more terrorist role and rule set. So, as for an ID reform

Mollies: Separatist group, not terrorists, not pirates either, but a fully actualized separatist nation state.
Gaians: Terrorists, obviously. The organization is dedicated to maintaining the natural state of Sirius, Through whatever means necessary. (note, terrorist does not imply a right to attack everyone....Gaians have no reason to shoot at, or even acknowledge say, Interspace Commerce.
BD-Revolutionaries-Goals are to violently restore their shogunate, essentially, fighting to enact a coup.
GC-Revolutionaries-Goals are to violently enact a Matriarchy.
Outcasts-Rouge Nation-have their independence, are not even human anymore, and goals are to rule Sirius through the Cardamine trade.
Xenos-Terrorists-Xenophobic Libertonian workers-if anyone's thought this through, they have no reason to attack Liberty based companies, and probably have supporters inside those companies.

there my expertise ends, but none of the above groups fall under the label 'Pirate'

Apart from that I agree that the small factions like Farmers Alliance that are fighting there house (that has in there cannon) that they are terrorists is fine but don't slap the terrorist tag on factions that are not terrorists.

And don't slap the Pirate tag on everything that's criminal.

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[Zelot]

I'd like to clear up the Farmers Alliance talk. The Farmer's Alliance is not really like the Mollies, GC, Unioners, Bund, Blood Dragons, Liberty Rouges, or Lane Hackers. They don't fight against the house that they reside in. The Farmers Alliance works with the tacit approval of the Kusari Authorities. Their goal is not to make money, it is to terrorize foreign companies into leaving Kusari. (Mainly SynthFoods). The Farmer's are not fighting to take over. They are fighting for an ideological goal that is not the overthrowal of a governemnt. In this sense they are like the Xeno's and the Gaians. I think these three groups fit criteria to make them a terrorist group.



1. They use civilian series ships, and no Caps.

2. Thier goal is not overthrowing the government.

3. They have very specific goals.

4. VERY limited zones

5. They recive funding from outside sources.

Gaians - Wealthy Cambridge elite

Farmers Alliance - Kusari Farmers and Samura

Xeno's - Corprate intrests

6. Very few bases





These are my thoughts.

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[BULLDOGNK]

as long as no one picks on the NovaPG ID i am happy with this discussion

Cheers

[Zelot]

as long as no one picks on the NovaPG ID i am happy with this discussion

Cheers

I have no problems with NovaPG, Phantoms, or AW. I was speaking more of Vanilla Freelancer factions.

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[bluntpencil2001]

I like where this is going.

So, would, for instance, Outcasts and Corsairs get some extra powers too, such as the ability to act like a lawful military in their own space?

Terrorists, like Gaians, would have specific targets, otherwise they should stick to theft...

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[Unseelie]

So, would, for instance, Outcasts and Corsairs get some extra powers too, such as the ability to act like a lawful military in their own space?

They are the lawful militaries in their own space.
The Corsairs and the Outcasts are Nations.
The point isn't to give factions 'extra' powers, its to let them be what they are.

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[Zelot]

They are the lawful militaries in their own space.
The Corsairs and the Outcasts are Nations.
The point isn't to give factions 'extra' powers, its to let them be what they are.

exactly

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[McNeo]

Sounds like Bundschuh, Farmers Alliance, Xenos and Gaians to me.

Perhaps, this is what the developers wanted? An ideologistic group for each house.

Also, Corsairs and Outcasts should have police powers in their home systems, in the same respect that the navy has in their systems. For example, a Corsair trader carrying artifacts in Alpha could be subjected to the force of large capital ships, as it is a breach of their law, and vice versa. Outside the home systems, normal current pirate law would apply though, but this would be exploited if the situation were allowed to continue in Gamma, with the cap-people blowing up every person who dared jump in.

The current problem needs to be solved before this problem can be solved.

[Equinox]

I'm going to have to say, again, that it isn't really about Terrorist factions.
Its about the so called 'pirate' factions.
They aren't really all pirates.

On Outcasts, they aren't pirates. There aren't any Outcasts that live anywhere near Liberty. They run drugs to liberty, and that's the only reason they show up in Liberty, using Rochester and Buffalo and Mactan as safehouses and stopovers.

On NPCs....Bretonians demand cargo, BHG demand cargo. The fact is, 'Pirate' does not describe these groups.
Pirate is a cop-out in the ID system. Look at the Pirate IDs: its simply a cookie cutter design for anything that is not a citizen of one of the four houses. The Pirate ID does not fit most of the Criminal groups in Sirius, they may not fit the Terrorist group either. Those are the choices we currently have. Terrorist or Pirate.

Im not just going on NPCs have a look in game there is stuff written about Outcasts and pirating..

Outcasts-Rouge Nation-have their independence, are not even human anymore, and goals are to rule Sirius through the Cardamine trade.
Xenos-Terrorists-Xenophobic Libertonian workers-if anyone's thought this through, they have no reason to attack Liberty based companies, and probably have supporters inside those companies.

there my expertise ends, but none of the above groups fall under the label 'Pirate'

And don't slap the Pirate tag on everything that's criminal.

Well in that same light you cant just slap a pirate tag on Corsairs then because thats only a small part of what they do (just like outcasts).

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