Ok, I told myself I wouldn't get involved in any of these arguments and back and forths but....
As a former Bounty Hunters Guild pilot (Founder of the Shadow Stalkers Organization) who owned and operated a BHG Battleship, and admittedly got PVP-whorish with it (I'm a big part of the reason cruise was outlawed in combat... as I used it with my BHG Battleship to move at the speed of fighters)
There are a couple of things we need to look at, one of which is a good thing, Bounty Hunters REQUIRE a target to have a bounty in order to engage another player.
The second is a very bad thing, the boards (I haven't looked myself, but spotted multiple mentions of it in this thread) contain general bounty contracts. Simply outlaw general contracts that exploit the bounty hunter engagement rules. That solves that problem.
Now, for a personal suggestion to help curb the cap ship abuse.. being a former cap ship pilot and PVP whore (Yes, I can admit it now, but that's all changed:P) do the following:
PUNISHMENT FOR OORP (Out of Roleplay) CAPITAL SHIP USAGE (Gunboat and Higher Classes)
Deletion of ALL characters, across ALL accounts owned by the player, including banks and armories.
30 Day IP Ban, or more depending on the severity of the violation
These are SERIOUS punishments, for (in my eyes, and others) a very serious crime. There should be absolutely NO exception for the abuse of capital ships, and the punishment should be more than just taking the capital ship away and giving the player a temporary ban.
Capital ships are a privledge that we have been given, and on the RP server, there is absolutely no excuse for a player who is piloting a battleship to violate any kind of RP rules, especially those governing the use of a capital ship. If you've been around long enough to afford a capital ship.. You've been around long enough to know the rules, and violation of those rules is unacceptable.
For the record, with the above in place.. my vote is to NOT put more restrictions on capitals.. just thoroughly and abundantly punish the abusers of these rules.
Hmm well why not put these punishments in place for all OoRP rule violations?
Look I do not have a BH character I have Kishiro| and Outcasts characters, do not think I am being biased.
There is an unreasonable fear of Capships and BH's going on here.
Like I said all the OoRP behavior I have seen happening with BH's for the last 60 days has been from those around the BH's.
There is a limit to BH's imposed by the bounty rule.
You can say that BH capships are not cost affective but the same can be said for any Capship belonging to anyone not of the 4 navies and the Nomads.
This is fear taken too far.
I sit in Sigma-13 in my Outcast character and when a BH enters the other pirates start opening up on System "You do not have a bounty on us, leave" or "You Bounty Hunter capwhore, why do you have to ruin the game for the rest of us" or my all time favorite "go get a real ship you wuss, you only need that ship because you can't fly"( This came from a group of 3 Lunchboxes that wanted the battleship to come back with a bomber to fight them all), he wasn't even there to fight.:crazy:
If you do not want a bounty on you, stop being a pirate.
The hunters should have the same chances as the people who they are hunting have.
You make a good point in regards to the oorp conduct by those 'afraid' of the bounty hunter. This behavior is silly, because apparently the players behaving like this do not realize they have a choice.
Option 1: Ignore the bounty hunter, he can't engage you, so obviously he isn't there to 'pvp whore'.
Option 2: Attack the bounty hunter, after all.. pirates don't like hunters.
Option 3: Demand the BHG leave, or suffer the consequences.
So if you look at those options, there is no excuse for the OORP chat by those who are trying to get BHG to leave them alone. If you want to get rid of them, doing via RP. If you choose option 1, and you don't have a bounty on you.. then they are acting out the pvp-whore mentality and can justly be reported. However, if you start getting irritated and start spamming system about capship abuse before the capital ship pilot can even do, or say anything, you are the one creating the problem.
So let's draw up a scenario for everyone real fast.
BHG Battleship enters Omicron Gamma via the jumphole from Omega-41. BHG Battleship approaches Crete, or Tripoli and begins to slay countless NPCs, player corsairs watch the onslaught. There are no bounties posted on forums for the corsairs. The player corsairs are now faced with the three options. Say there are 5 corsairs, and 3 of them choose to initiate in option 2, and attack the BHG battleship. The battleship now engages these 3 players in self defense. The other two player corsairs? They are off-limits as they do not have bounties, and did not engage the hunter.
Basically.. if you see a BHG Battleship in your system killing your NPCs.. they are fully within their right of roleplay, killing the NPC's, collecting their escape pods to sell for credits. The perk of owning a battleship at this point is, if the enemies in charge of the system you are located in want you gone, THEY have to make the choice to engage you. This choice is left up to the pirate NOT the bounty hunter, therefore BHG capship 'whoring' is IMPOSSIBLE unless the pilot of the capship actually breaks the RP rules, which is a sanctionable offense.
That is the point entirely if he breaks the rules then by all means report him, if he doesn't then all is fine but please do not try and limit them further unless it is a limit we wish to place on all the factions.
' Wrote:That is the point entirely if he breaks the rules then by all means report him, if he doesn't then all is fine but please do not try and limit them further unless it is a limit we wish to place on all the factions.
Agreed fully and 100%. Battleships, and all capital ships were designed for one purpose, the long range mobility of forces. A capital ship should be permitted anywhere it can get on it's own power, and isn't blown up by opposing forces.
On another side note, I personally would like to see more battleship captains roleplay by means of patrolling their territories (as opposed to just sitting in one spot, as always) and assisting their local citizens as needed, be it mission assistance in liberty for new players.. ect ect. I will admit the sheer amount of "Look at my big guns, come attack me" seems pretty common amongst battleship pilots, as they are too afraid to take their capitals anywhere for fear of being branded a capital ship whore. This branding is limiting the enthusiasm for genuine roleplay from a lot of people, in my opinion.
I have heard so much whinging about how the BHG is supposed to be played, I could puke blood. A lot of what you guys are proposing is so absurdly limiting of how the id can be played that it beggars belief. Do any of you actually play hunters? If not, why not? Honestly, where have you guys been? Sigma 13? Omicron Gamma? The rest of Sirius is a lot better and a lot different to those places.
Players have been sanctioned for attacking without bounties and breaking the terms of bounties. And now, you're suggesting that the lawful forces have to provide a list of the names of criminals within their jurisdiction. So, just because someone hasn't named, for example, every single pilot in a Corsair lunchbox who wanders into Cambridge orbit and shoots the place up, they get to continue to play without consequences. Sounds like piracy would be super-boring and unimaginative.
How did these pirates acquire their repuations and IDs? Peeling potatoes in a chip shop on Cambridge?
If you think you've been mistreated in game by a hunter, report him. It's that simple. That includes if you were the target of these "very bad" blanket bounties. How are they bad? They permit hunters to intercept pirates in certain places while using certain ships? They mean that when a pirate crosses a frontier, he can't be chased?
I'm pretty sure most pirates would much prefer if we hunted using piranhas and our powers of persuasion. It just seems some people will never be happy with the BHG. They complain about capships. They complain about gunships. They complain about jurisdictional and contractual limitations being put on hunters. They complain when they get chased by a guy in a sea serpent. This all sounds like poor sportsmanship and, frankly, a lot of whining. How much of this debate is generated because people lose combats? Probably wouldn't find many threads popping up if people were killing hunters at every turn....which they can do...and there is no rule saying you can't juts randomly kill every BHG ID ship if you are an unlawful.
As for the /renameme command, you might have noticed how most factionised hunters objected to the /setbounty command being introduced on the grounds that it would destroy the forum RP behind bounties.
Athenian raises a good point in regards to the 'blanket bounties' (nice term btw!)... there are two sides to every coin.
Here is an alternative to outlawing blanket bounties:
Blanket bounties are outlawed and can ONLY be placed by Law Enforcement factions, and to be enacted within space directly controlled by that faction ONLY. For example, Bretonian Armed Forces could place a blanket bounty on all pirates in Bretonian controlled systems.
This would allow blanket bounties to be in effect in 'civilized' space and prevent blanket bounties placed on a system such as Malta or Gamma, where bounty hunter cap fleets could just run amuck.
Really any other blanket bounty other than what i've described above would be obscenely out of RP, and bankrupt any character or organization. You place a blanket bounty for all pirates in a borderworld system, and you've suddenly got every bounty hunter in the known worlds swarming there and killing everything in sight. Only a government would be able to afford this, and even then - they would only spare the funds to protect their own directly controlled territories.
' Wrote:Athenian raises a good point in regards to the 'blanket bounties' (nice term btw!)... there are two sides to every coin.
Here is an alternative to outlawing blanket bounties:
Blanket bounties are outlawed and can ONLY be placed by Law Enforcement factions, and to be enacted within space directly controlled by that faction ONLY. For example, Bretonian Armed Forces could place a blanket bounty on all pirates in Bretonian controlled systems.
This would allow blanket bounties to be in effect in 'civilized' space and prevent blanket bounties placed on a system such as Malta or Gamma, where bounty hunter cap fleets could just run amuck.
Really any other blanket bounty other than what i've described above would be obscenely out of RP, and bankrupt any character or organization. You place a blanket bounty for all pirates in a borderworld system, and you've suddenly got every bounty hunter in the known worlds swarming there and killing everything in sight. Only a government would be able to afford this, and even then - they would only spare the funds to protect their own directly controlled territories.
I say, if some merchant or private company has the credits, they may post blanket bounties. Imo. If they run out of funds, they simply suspend the bounty until further notice.
And, as I and countless others have said already, no bounties will be offered to BHs flying cap ships in 4.85. Period. (notable exceptions being the Orca and the new gunship). Why? Because all the cap ships will be in the Omicrons, Sigmas and Omegas. Why will the cap ships be there? Because there's this big war-thingy going on there. Since the naughty BH cap ships will be preoccupied with pew-pewing the Order, the Nomads and any unfortunate third party elements who get in between the BH and that Nomad tech, they will not be wandering off into House Space. Nor will they be allowed to.
So, If you're a regular BH (as opposed to the BH Guard, also know as Core BH) you may fly your LF/HF/VHF/bomber/gunship/gunboat wherever your work takes you (Kusari being the exception - stupid isolationists).
I think that this is clean-cut division of tasks and ZOI: BH hunt the bounties throughout Sirius, BH Guard fight the war in the Omicrons, Sigmas and Omegas. Simpler than medieval plumbing.
Oh, one final point. Athenian is a righteous dude.
' Wrote:And, as I and countless others have said already, no bounties will be offered to BHs flying cap ships in 4.85. Period.
So, aside from multiple bombers, how else would the hunters take down capital ships? Because not being allowed to hunt bounties in a capital ship, even if your target is a capital ship is a little ludicrous.
' Wrote:I think that this is clean-cut division of tasks and ZOI: BH hunt the bounties throughout Sirius, BH Guard fight the war in the Omicrons, Sigmas and Omegas. Simpler than medieval plumbing.
One thing I don't agree with now, and never will agree with is that no player should ever be limited to where they can fly their ship, just because they are a bounty hunter, in a capital ship. It's ludicrous, and all it is going to do is piss people off. I don't even WANT to be a bounty hunter again and it pisses me off.
I just can't stand the thought of being restricted on where I am allowed to go with my ship. If I'm not supposed to be there, then the local enforcement (be it pirates, or law enforcement) should remove me by force, regardless if I'm allowed to attack first or not.
It's like saying "You have a Liberty fighter, you cannot leave liberty." or "You're a lane hacker, you must remain within 50 kilometers from a trade lane at all times.
Or, god forbid, "You're a trader with X company that is only in X house. You can't trade outside of that house!"
It just doesn't make sense to me to be honest, and if people would properly RP with their battleships and capitals these ludicrous rules wouldn't need to be created. Like I said, increase the punishment and reduce the crime. 30 Day IP Ban, and deletion of ALL of your characters for OORP. After all, it IS a role play server. If we do this, it decreases PVP whoring, and increases roleplay.
EDIT: The penalty for travelling somewhere you aren't 'supposed' to be, is death. If your enemy can not kill you - that is their downfall, not yours. You should not get sanctioned due to another players inadequacy to destroy your ship or assemble to forces to do so. The outcome of battle is not just determined by role play, it is determined by your equipment, your ship, your *SKILL*. Roleplay is merely a tool that we must, need and are *REQUIRED* to use on this server to enhance the experience
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