' Wrote:@ Agmen of Eladesor: Well ... guess role play is subjective ... BHG = role play ... Pirate = no role play. Am I getting your interpretation correct?
Quote:It just doesn't make sense to me to be honest, and if people would properly RP with their battleships and capitals these ludicrous rules wouldn't need to be created. Like I said, increase the punishment and reduce the crime. 30 Day IP Ban, and deletion of ALL of your characters for OORP. After all, it IS a role play server. If we do this, it decreases PVP whoring, and increases roleplay.
Dark Oddity answered the question you posed.
It's the individual players responsibility to role play his ship correctly, based on what he's in and what he's supposed to be doing. If the PERSON is playing the BH correctly, then it's all good. If the PERSON is playing the pirate correctly, again, it's all good. (Just ask Kate.Donnely with the Molly's - as the CO of the S/D-Surma, I've had several fun encounters with her, some of which have ended in pew-pew and some which have not. We enjoy the RP and banter back and forth.)
I've had many interesting RP encounters out in the Gamma, Delta, and Kappa with both my BH and non-BH characters. And with a corsair character, I've also been on the receiving end of a gank attack, albeit by Outcasts and not hunters. The ship is irrelevant (other than survivability against NPC attacks). The player makes the difference.
just to add: some hunters, Order men and corsairs just had a fight. an organised one. and it ruled. Wouldn`t have missed it for the world. we all played fair and we had a ball. so it`s nt the ships people, it`s the dude/dudette on the mouse and keyboard who makes the game what it is.
I don't think bounty hunters should fly anything larger than gunboats. I also don't think they should be at war with the Order or even just be allowed into Alaska and beyond, it just doesn't make any sense.
The Bounty Hunter's Guild should exactly be what it's name suggests - a band of loosely affiliated individual hunters who are basically sellswords, but don't want to get a too bad name in the eyes of the law and thus only take lawful contracts. Using a GB might be justified for a bounty hunter, as they can easily be operated by small crews. Look at RL's Blackwater; they are pretty much the most "successful" private military contractor (which is basically a company of more-or-less lawful mercenaries). They are much more organized than the BHG is, but they don't have naval warships. They have a couple of helicopters and APCs, but that's already it. They'd never act as if they were a country of their own though and if they participate in wars, it's because they've got hired. Also, they don't wage war to get new technologies or anything, or could you imagine Blackwater trying to raid Area 51?
That being said...if you want to fly a capital ship, find an organization capable to build and crew them. The House military forces are one of those, for example. Both the Corsair and Outcast militaries may be such organizations as well. But the BHG certainly isn't. Most of them would actually operate mainly on the ground; they'd probably have a fighter to move around or to hunt down the odd criminal fighter jock if they feel like they're up for the challenge. Some of the more elite Hunters may gang up and form a Bomber wing to take a active role in hunting down the more dangerous criminals who sit in GBs (larger unlawful vessels should fulfill purely defensive purposes or be used in times of open war, but they certainly shouldn't fly around robbing traders or attacking NY). Some REALLY elite bounty hunters may form up as some kind of squad and buy a GB - but there is only one reason why the BHG could possibly possess a very small number of cruisers, and that would be to use them as mobile forward operation bases, like the S/D does. And there is absolutely no reason to make a bounty hunter cruiser free to fly for the general public. And battleships? Excuse me, but...you don't hunt for bounties in a huge, expensive battleship - and since a cruiser is more than enough to fulfill the role of a FOB, there is absolutely no justification for the BHG being able to construct or command battleships.
Actually come 4.85 bounty hunters will not be flying anything bigger then gunboats. Now the bounty hunter CORE will be able to fly the caps, but the caps will be restricted to the outlands. I think that is quite fair considering almost anyone else can bring caps into house space. And if you strip the cap ships from the BHG...you need to strip them from everyone except house military to be fair.
' Wrote:I don't think bounty hunters should fly anything larger than gunboats. I also don't think they should be at war with the Order or even just be allowed into Alaska and beyond, it just doesn't make any sense.
The Bounty Hunter's Guild should exactly be what it's name suggests - a band of loosely affiliated individual hunters who are basically sellswords, but don't want to get a too bad name in the eyes of the law and thus only take lawful contracts. Using a GB might be justified for a bounty hunter, as they can easily be operated by small crews. Look at RL's Blackwater; they are pretty much the most "successful" private military contractor (which is basically a company of more-or-less lawful mercenaries). They are much more organized than the BHG is, but they don't have naval warships. They have a couple of helicopters and APCs, but that's already it. They'd never act as if they were a country of their own though and if they participate in wars, it's because they've got hired. Also, they don't wage war to get new technologies or anything, or could you imagine Blackwater trying to raid Area 51?
I'm sorry, but did you bother to actually check anything out on Blackwater before you decided to use them as an example?
Sure, they're a private company - but ... and this is where English gets tricky ... they're MUCH larger than a military sized company, which is where I think the confusion comes in.
A military company normally consists of 3 - 4 platoons, so you're talking about maybe 150 - 200 people, tops. Blackwater owns 4 training facilities and has trained 50,000 people in the last 10 years. That's about 4 DIVISIONS worth of troops. They own considerably more than a couple of helicopters and APC's - as in, at a minimum, 18 Bell 214's (similar to the old Huey), 20 Super Tucano Light Attack Aircraft, another 20 some odd fixed wing turbo-props with guns on them similar to the old Puff-the Magic Dragon, they manufacture their own LINE of APC's (as in full factory), and they DO have their own Navy, too.
So while Blackwater individual troops are the capwhores of Disco, as a company, they're quite in line with being their own, private army - that could field 14,000 troops within 30 days if needed. Did anyone mention Bounty Hunters Guild CORE anywhere in here, or how things will be set up in 4.85?
I could mention the similarities between Blackwater, having their own production company, and what they do with something that currently exists on the Disco Server - because guess what? If Blackwater needed it, I bet they'd get their own space ships. Or perhaps they already have them....
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.
Quote:Also, they don't wage war to get new technologies or anything, or could you imagine Blackwater trying to raid Area 51?
Nobody would do that, because their country would get nuked into a parking lot.
Should be the same with alaska... cough...
I think its a little off for a BH BS to go into crete and just start attacking people, I mean think about it, dont you think those criminal organizations would have like a sensor built into the weapon platforms near the jumpholes?
About Alaska: It's far more likely for the Bounty Hunter Guild Core to have been given access to the Omicrons via Alaska. Infocards suggest their capital ships were developed on Liberty shipyards, the BHG has a strong (in canon RP) relationship with Liberty, and the Liberty forces have had Nomad/Order trouble in Alaska's northern section.
Of course, this differs completely to the Liberty faction's current RP, but it's up to Igiss to decide what role bounty hunters have in Alaska.
Plus, people, it's silly to say "battleships are useless for hunting bounties, so the BHG shouldn't have them". The Guild Core, not Hunters, operate the capital ships. The Guild Core is a naval/research organisation, not the same as their scruffier Guild counterparts. It's like saying "You can't mine well in a battlecruiser, so why do the IMG have one?". The BHG is a large organisation, with different sections (Hunters and the Core are the two canon ones).
Im glad this has provoked some interesting discussion. Im NOT lobbying for removal of capital ships at every turn, and my comments about "what I would do if it weren't so complicated" were purely hypothetical. I have just raised a few questions which have provided interesting discussion points.
I do accept the significance of the Guild Core and their need for warships to use against the order. I am looking forward to seeing the new ID specifications in 4.85 and how they define the distinction between the BHG money-sucking navy, and their money-making Bounty Hunter counterparts.
Personally, I find the Order-BHG war a bit odd, as it would seem the only reason for it is because they're being paid by Liberty, who have the strongest navy in the game and probably wouldn't have others fighting their battles. I would get rid of the BHG from Alaska and create a passage of systems from the BHG guard system to one of the nomad-worlds. (Secretly contructed Jumpgate perhaps?) The Core could use this passage to reach the nomad systems and fight with the Order over access to valuable nomad technology that could benefit their organisation. The passage could be long, but clear enough of obstacles to allow BHG fleets to land on the Order's doorstep. Perhaps a 1 way-gate could be used? IE. a gate with no gate on the other side (it is hostile space, afterall...) so BHG ships that are deployed must remain based out of freeports etc. until an extraction operation can bring them back vire Gamma or Chugoku.
' Wrote:...get rid of the BHG from Alaska and create a passage of systems from the BHG guard system to one of the nomad-worlds. (Secretly contructed Jumpgate perhaps?) The Core could use this passage to reach the nomad systems and fight with the Order over access to valuable nomad technology that could benefit their organisation. The passage could be long, but clear enough of obstacles to allow BHG fleets to land on the Order's doorstep. Perhaps a 1 way-gate could be used? IE. a gate with no gate on the other side (it is hostile space, afterall...) so BHG ships that are deployed must remain based out of freeports etc. until an extraction operation can bring them back vire Gamma or Chugoku.
I can see some real advantages to this - it would stop the daily attempts to kill everyone in Gamma by the stampeding muppet brigade.
Maybe a two-way hole could be placed in 15? System is dead anyway.
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