Barge use in the modern age.

[Tickalsiinz]

How partial is partial? Like 10bn? Specifics would be cool. Still very lame to make a moneysink and nerf it the next patch. Shows disrespect for people who put huge hours into the game to get the damn ship in the first place.

I mined 5000 SciData for my first barge at the cost of 400ish hours and partial sight loss due to how bright the anomalies are.

The barge I wish to get a refund for took just shy of 350 hours in the first barge to “power trade” Helium-Helium3. I wish I’d just used a 5k ship on Xeno Relics for the same time to earn 35+ b instead of the measly 15B I got from barge use. Oh, wouldn’t have had the purchased ship nerfed into the floor beyond use either.

You most likely wont get a refund, HOWEVER it is your lucky day i'll be happy to take it off your hand for 1/3 the price you paid for it, i'll give you 5b in old money 50million xD

I'd get done for ripping you off, it's not worth 10M with the nerf.

This is why I'm asking for a full refund given what I purchased is not what I have now.

You buy a brand new car, you're happy with it. Then the dealership that sold you it comes and takes the wheels overnight. Then makes it impossible to fit new wheels. It's now useless- This is what has happened.

10m sounds good to me

[Stewgar]

You do realize the irony in this post, right? Echo chambers? Really?
"You are wrong and I am correct" isn't how you disprove someone's arguments.

"You are wrong and I am correct" is not how I disprove someone's argument. If you believe this, you have not been paying attention to what I post. Research my posts to see how I disprove someone's argument. I review their ideas and logic to determine faults and potential risks of their claim. I'm either given additional information that makes my ideas invalid or may provide more faults or risks to their original ideas. That is how you debate.

One of my favorite quotes from a mentor of mine from the military - "I don't care where good ideas come from. I just care about good ideas". I've even backtracked on something I said when it was brought to my attention by Couden of all people. COUDEN, one of the most toxic players in this community but... damnit, he had a good point and I acknowledged it.

In several POBcast episodes I've had disagreements with either Zentor (a good friend of mine who I almost met in real life this week before my car broke down), another host, or our guest where I was introduced to a new idea or way of thinking that has made me change my stance on things. So while I do surround myself with people that I can trust and have integrity, I refuse to befriend "yes men". I accept when my ideas are challenged as it makes me a better person if I determine that my way of thinking, my logic - whatever it is, is faulty and incorrect. I will stand by my opinions and logic until they are cornered and defeated. Through further discussion I will learn and alter my logic.

So if you are implying that I, myself, am in an echo chamber, you best change how you research somebody before coming at them personally unless you enjoy being served a slice of humble pie again.



Now, to Haste. As much as I hate that it takes a big rant to draw your attention, I appreciate your reply and taking part in this discussion. However, as discussed numerous times in previous discussions, your equation and ideas lack the very things that you yourself just mentioned - NPC influence ("trade lane disruption in New London and you might as well see if a staff ship is in town), obstacles, gaps in trade lanes, piracy, sharp angles in trade lanes (and hope you don't get tapped by an NPC patrol). Your equation lacks the most important number - distance. The longer the distance, the more the barge's advantage diminishes. Given my experience, after 4-5 systems, the 5Ker ends up being more efficient. I don't have numbers but I can test this again and provide my results to you if you like. There will be a distance where the barge is no longer the advantaged ship - the 5K'er is more effective.

Your post is also the first time I have seen any mention of reimbursement regarding the barge. What the number for 'partial' means will be interesting to hear. It would be nice to make this public knowledge as barge owners who are either disenchanted by any further discussion about the barge or have the left the community entirely are tuned out. Something official would be nice and I would help spread the word.

The refineries would be a dream scenario for barge owners. It's not something that I put a lot of hope in since I know that, despite Aingar's awesomeness and coding skill, would be a hell of an effort to pull off especially if there are other fires to tend to first. I have proposed, on several occasions, to at least give the barge no-clip. This would at least keep Sirius open to trade. My other suggestion, and something I offered to assist with, is open only trade lanes that cut through asteroid fields or other obstacles. I was willing to complete a report of which trade lanes could be open and which ones may remain closed. I can understand the lore inconsistency but if people want to point to this as a game-breaking inconsistency, I can point to several others including in PVP.

As far as being "proven wrong" - I've posted this several times and this will be my last time doing so. There is consistency when a topic is introduced, I and others reply saying it's a bad idea, and either get no reply or a reply involving something else entirely. This is a known tactic for people to never admit that they are wrong. Whether that is the case or you are doing something else that I'm unsure of, I have no idea at this point. In threads such as this, we have provided rational, logical arguments on why the changes to the barge would cripple it and ruin the experience. Well, guess what, the majority consensus of the changes has rendered the barge useless. Sure there are some that have some utility out of it. Are you going to hang your hat on the few that are happy over the majority that are unhappy to the point that some have even left the community entirely?

Assuming that barge pilots are all money printers and we got them only by doing the broken VIP trade is simply incorrect. Providing some kind of reimbursement would also help with alleviating the pain of having an expensive ship reduced to either storage or a floating brick. You seem to have reversed on your original stance of no refunds/reimbursements and your verbiage in your last post indicates you might be understanding now that not all of us obtained our barges through the broken VIP runs. That is progress but is also alarming that it has taken this much effort and time to get these stances reversed. It may even be too late to bring back those disenchanted by the several changes made by the patch and even prior to.

I'm exhausted by this topic. Haste, if you or anybody else wants to have a rational discussion about the barge, send me a PM here or a DM on Discord and we can have a discussion (again). I highly urge you and other devs to actually listen to what we are saying. The players are the life blood of the community and this community has been leaking blood for quite some time now.

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It ain't about what you are capable of, it's about what you're willing to do.

[Redline.Inc]

I wouldn't care much about WHAT got done to un-cluster the Barge as long as Something got done.

IMO, scaling it down by half and halving the cargo capacity while still denying TL's would be fine if it cruised normally.

There HAS to be some usable formula of cargo vs. speed that will not "ruin the economy" which in my opinion was mostly about people previously using barges to power trade ores. Making ores 2x cargo mostly rectified that along with the removal of the ridiculous ore payouts at the best sellpoints. A Barge with halved cargo capacity would be able to carry 7500 ore. Minus trade lanes, that would at least close the gap significantly with lane-capable 5k's. There is some point where the numbers would work, so that's where we should be rather than where we are.

Also, it seems to me that the previous version of ore pricing was an economic sweet spot intended for use by the server's "good old boy" network, and became a problem only when everyone started doing it, and additionally using Barges to do so. This is why, IMO, the Barge got nerfed to oblivion.

The ship is called the Barge Type 2. Make a Type 3 that works and let people have SOME type of value for something that they paid 15 BILLION for,
since just expecting folks to be OK with this screw job is nonsense.

Oh, and we don't need to be preached to about trading with 5k's. We've done that. A LOT of that.
How do you think we got the 15 BILLION?

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[Prysin]

A lot of conspiracy theories

Do you even own a barge? Doesn't sound like it.


I agree it could use some minor buffs, but the Barge actually have its uses, and it does it well.

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DHC Discord

[Redline.Inc]

A lot of conspiracy theories

Do you even own a barge? Doesn't sound like it.


I agree it could use some minor buffs, but the Barge actually have its uses, and it does it well.

A. The use of a quote within a quote to show me saying something I never said is clever.
B. I do own a barge and use it for the one thing is it still good for, supplying a base within it's home system and as a flying (somewhat) POB storage module.
C. My points are valid and and are not being refuted by your statements.

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