' Wrote:I agree on your perception: There is absolutly no point to argue our perception. Concerning your perception that we might believe to be always right I disagree.
I might admit that you probably do not have a chance for a different perception but even so you are crossing the border from facts to speculations. An important fact is that we stopped to care for your opinions after we had to see that you have were cowardly abandoning your own ideas for the questionable benefit of not being ganked.
I do feel obligated to point out the hypocrisy inherent in those statements following each other.
As for cowardly abandoning ideas, somehow, when they first thought of the ZA, they didn't think a group of brazen idiots would pick a fight with a major military power.
' Wrote:So, after having supported your ideas for a long while you thought it would be a good idea to screw us, which is OKAY, in fact completely okay, but you should not believe that you have earned the sufficient respect to be considered serious about Zoner RP. The result is that we are merely ignoring OSI's opinion in matters of Zoner RP, which in return you might finally recognize as the reason why you are perceiving us wrongly, as those who believe they would always be right. We know we are not, but it would be insanely pointless to try convincing especially you.
You screwed them over when your aggressive overbearing attempt at diplomacy got you into hot water.
Also, again, the inherent hypocrisy in these statements, really, continues to amaze me.
' Wrote:The OSI RP is dominated by the attempt to satisfy the demands and/or needs of the Corsair NPC Faction, as we have seen clear indicators for this once more here in this thread, and it is actually nothing but a trader RP focused on Freeport access, so why are you still trying to convince everybody to play the broad scope of Zoner RP possibilities?
Lol. All i have to say. Lololololololol. The fact that they don't want to follow you off a cliff doesn't mean they are "abandoning" you.
And really, what do you think most Zoners do? Trade, that's what. That's what most of your people do as well. Trade Trade Trade.
' Wrote:Also, please mind that none of our opinions here has to be right per se, neither ours, nor yours, but even then there is a solution by falling back to vanilla. Would you fail again by abandoning "Zoner brethren"? I bet you would because you are not ready to accept the Freeport NPC statements from vanilla, so if you do not like the mud we have collected from the remainders you have left just stop pretending you would care for the Zoner NPC Faction more than for the Corsair NPC Faction.
Seems to me you don't accept the Freeport NPC statements from your own Freeport. Remember that one where the Bartender is scared spitless of the Corsairs after just mentioning the location of their homeworld?
Follow that one before you lecture others.
' Wrote:Back on topic, if you want to split the Zoner ID you would just damage the Zoner RP compared to vanilla further. But the Omicroners agree that you should have your own ID, even more if you are awsome in trades and making profits. According to the feedback of Blodo I would suggest you are taking the Core Worlds "Zoner" ID, but I would also expect it to be rephacked similarily to a House Corporation. In fact the OSI is being played like one, which would have a certain und perhaps undesirable impact on the Zoner RP as a whole: The House Zoners are moving back into the safety of the colonies.
The only thing I do not like about this solution is that the whole of the Zoners would be split up into four Zoner IDs because it is destroying the initial idea of a NPC faction being in between everywhere. Especially the lack of adaption is a very important setting of the Zoner RP. Taking away this RP motive is preverting the whole NPC Faction.
From what i see, the only reason such a split is wanted is your ridiculous and insipid attempts to hijack Zoner RP and diplomacy, make enemies and be a House unto yourself, riding roughshod over the other Zoner factions and ....ignoring their RP? That's an all new low, for all of Disco. I mean, Bretonia ignores it's H-fuel situation, Kusari it's need for base metals.....but .....yeah.
Previous to this thread, i thought my opinion of you and your faction couldn't possibly drop any lower.
I was wrong.
gone four years, first day back: Zoners still getting shot in Theta :|
' Wrote:From what i see, the only reason such a split is wanted is your ridiculous and insipid attempts to hijack Zoner RP and diplomacy, make enemies and be a House unto yourself, riding roughshod over the other Zoner factions and ....ignoring their RP? That's an all new low, for all of Disco. I mean, Bretonia ignores it's H-fuel situation, Kusari it's need for base metals.....but .....yeah.
You need to clean out your eyes, as the Omicroners are not the ones pushing for this ID split, if anything they've been standing against such a thing.
Anyway.
What I think, both sides need to just ignore each other for a while. Then the poking at one another will stop, due to the lack of reaction and relations will begin to chill. This is really what I think would work best now, instead of an ID split, which will solve nothing at all.
' Wrote:You need to clean out your eyes, as the Omicroners are not the ones pushing for this ID split, if anything they've been standing against such a thing.
' Wrote:he obviously is only trolling, i do not believe he is that stupid to not understand what is written here.
No the Omicroners aren't pushing for it. The OSI is pushing for it in order to reflect the vast difference between their RP and the Omicroner's RP, and beacuse the Omicroners are, from what i'm reading, giving them the middle finger.
gone four years, first day back: Zoners still getting shot in Theta :|
Addendum for n00bl3t: I daresay my assessment of the TAZ was premature. Given that at the time we'd been discussing it for a couple days and Yaoquizque was the only one to offer sentiments from the TAZ which went uncontradicted until yesterday, I assumed his comments represented the greater part of his faction. As I came to know later, that was not the case.
[6/30/2011 10:39:36 PM] Tristan - TAZ Representative: Oh and the reason that there are no TAZ viewpoints is that well, frankly I dont have issue with much of what is in the proposal. All I care about is if it would work for all of us and not just TAZ.
You need not play coy, however. You know exactly what I'm talking about in regards to infighting. You asked me to show respect toward your faction in the things I say on the forum - and I have with this thread been positively delightful - but I'd most certainly like to ask the same of you. This thread is not about airing our grievances about each other's players, it's about discussing and possibly eventually finding a solution to the ID issue that none of us thought about since we're so mired in the issues. As you've been so polite to remind me, we have feedbackthreads for this.
Fair enough, I do not speak with Tristan or Yaoquizque so I would not know.
I do know, but I seriously thought there was no infighting with the proposal, so it caught me off guard.
Either way, I do not support the ID change. The Zoner and Zoner Guard ID should remain as is.
Having said that, I would fully support OSI-'s application for another ID. I am not saying you should become Freelancers or whatever else is being said, I am talking about a custom OSI- ID. (For which you define your own RP parameters with the developers and the Administrators.)
My only concern, or caution with this would be asking you not to use capital ships. Fearless and Juggernaut specifically, because the Conference makes RP sense as an escorting ship and the Corvo is quite open. I do see your role-play as more corporation-based, so I would not see the need for you to use this. (I believe I talked with someone who said you have no Fearlesses or Juggernauts anyway, so I do not think you mind. Please clarify if this is the case.)
Also, my apologies if this has been brought up before. I only read Gheis's response and responded because I was not interested in the flood of certain posts that I am sure I will find if I go through all the pages.
' Wrote:I do know, but I seriously thought there was no infighting with the proposal, so it caught me off guard.
It wasn't centered around the proposal specifically, but I have the strong feeling that the events that transpired in other places around the forum did affect the progress we were making. I'm just as much to blame for that as anyone else.
' Wrote:Either way, I do not support the ID change. The Zoner and Zoner Guard ID should remain as is.
Having said that, I would fully support OSI-'s application for another ID. I am not saying you should become Freelancers or whatever else is being said, I am talking about a custom OSI- ID. (For which you define your own RP parameters with the developers and the Administrators.)
An OSI ID has been discussed among the OSI HC and I believe it's been presented to the Administration for review on one or two occasions, but denied each time. It was because of that denial that I attempted a more RP-centric approach to splitting things within the Zoners, although as I said in my last post, between the feedback received from the Zoner Leadership and the community here, it appears that splitting the Zoner ID itself is going to be too heavy-handed in any case. I think the last OSI ID proposal was made about a year, ago, though, and as a faction we've matured significantly since then (I think), so perhaps it'd be a more viable option this time.
' Wrote:My only concern, or caution with this would be asking you not to use capital ships. Fearless and Juggernaut specifically, because the Conference makes RP sense as an escorting ship and the Corvo is quite open. I do see your role-play as more corporation-based, so I would not see the need for you to use this. (I believe I talked with someone who said you have no Fearlesses or Juggernauts anyway, so I do not think you mind. Please clarify if this is the case.)
You're spot on there. The heaviest attack ship OSI uses is the Conference, and that in itself is both limited by our faction creation post and the lack of need for heavier ships. We rarely fly the gunboats we have as it is, but they do come in handy from time to time. I know a couple of us have our own Zoner capitals, but those are unaffiliated with the faction.
' Wrote:Also, my apologies if this has been brought up before. I only read Gheis's response and responded because I was not interested in the flood of certain posts that I am sure I will find if I go through all the pages.
The closest that was touched on - in this thread anyhow - was separate IDs for each of the three factions. Buried in between grudge-bearing from both sides over the Corsair nonsense.
Really, my goal with whatever ID proposal we came up with was to be fair for each faction. I think ideally, OSI would prefer to have our own separate OSI ID, but given that the prospect was turned down on multiple occasions, I was attempting to venture out into alternate directions with this proposal.
Just another step on the path.
To everyone else, I really don't want to have to request this thread be closed, but we need to stop this negative back-and-forth (Bindo) on the merits of events that are long past (Bindo) and stop egging on the other side (Bindo). I think you've (Bindo) made your point (Bindo) and further arguing it isn't going to resolve anything (Bindo).
Just a short reply from a Zoners player that I am.
I am not for a change of the Zoners IDs.
However, if it would happen as describe in the first post I have two points that I would like to be changed:
Regarding docking in House space, I understand there is an oorp need to not let Whales dock everywhere so I think it should be maintained for all Whales. However, it could be made in another way that would be more rp (at least according to me!). This would need a split in at least 3 zoners IDs:
- TAZ guard ID: since they are diplomatically closer to Kusari (a lot of trade exemptions, no samura bounty... ) I would suggest they do not dock at all in Bretonia.
- OSI guard ID: same idea. They are close to Liberty (geographically and also I've seen they supplied liberty gov with zoners weapons) so they should not dock in Rheinland.
- Omicroners guard ID: omicroners are geographically far from the 4 houses however Liberty is indeed the farer. Also some trade agreement have been conclude with Bretonia and Rheinland. So I would say Omicroners cannot dock in Liberty.
Like this no guards are able to powertrade within the 4 Houses. And it makes sense that Whales can dock in the closest House spaces since Zoners bases are not self-sufficient and need to be supplied (a lot of goods need to be imported according to the wiki). Actually, we are roleplaying these kind of needs for Omicron-74 and I feel it is a little stupid to have to load fertilizers on a whale in orbit of planet holstein with a smaller vessel using the zoner id,
Now for indies, they should choose between one of the 3 zoners faction guard ID or maybe we could let the zoners guard ID for indies only.
Note that actual Zoners ID would not be required in that system.
Regarding auto-repfixing: I don't think this reflect the roleplay of zoners. zoners are neutral with almost everybody (others are allies) it should remain like it is.
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