' Wrote:We cant say that it is totally wrong to pirate in front of a Zoner base. Our ZoI is already limited. And it would be hard to strictly enforce a full ban of piracy around the zoner bases. But still if we investigate the detailed RP roots of this, Unioners were warned by the Zoners to take their criminal activities elsewhere and thats why they carved the Pacifica. So Zoners, despite doing an intense business with Unioners, actually would not like to see Unioners taxing traders around their bases which could do business with Zoners as well. Say if we had a Zoner aligned faction active in Bering, which would very unlikely happen to be honest, they would not like us taxing traders in front of Freeport II. But still, the thing is even if we arrange our own faction to avoid pirating around Zoner bases, I have doubts about being able to completely enforce this for every faction. And in Bering, the mid tradelanes location are not too far away from the freeport, say 10-15k, which could make the things a bit vague in that occasion if the trader is making a run for it. And he would most probably do when he sees a wing of Unioners on his tail.
Yeah sorry for taking a tangent, but I for one think we can regulate ourselves in this. Let other illegals do what they do. Regardless [W] will not let another illegal pirate anywhere in Bering including FP2. It is natrual in our RP to assume that the Zoners would be a little annoyed if we are openly pirating outside their base. True our ZoI is small but we simply do not need to do this, lane hack then CD and that trader is caught. If someone does escape us and dock, kudos to them I say:)
True that Spear, our major intention should be lane hacking but if the trader runs we will need to chase and intercept. And if we catch any other pirate taxing traders in Bering, either near FP or not we would again need to intercept. Our ultimate purpose is not camping around bases but doing lane raiding.
' Wrote:Most pirates i no don't have anything to do with bounty hunters or mercs, i shoot BH's as soon as a see them and i give mercs one chance to move, also why would a pirate hire someone to do something he could do himself?
Mercenaries take contracts based on credits not objective and/or employer. Why wouldn't pirates hire a merc to assassinate someone in the House systems? He's already KOS in there just for being a pirate, so why not?
' Wrote:It is not always about the money...pirates enjoy revenge...:D
Yes, true, as I said it's within RP. But a pirate would never turn down the chance to make money. So why only hunt a single dude when there is a universe full of players exactly the same.
Gas Miner's Guild.
We're a guild, that mines gas. Isn't that strange?
We supply Sirius with H-Fuel...like the Middle East supplies oil to the world.
So, put that in you pipe and smoke it...
' Wrote:But a pirate would never turn down the chance to make money.
Speak for yourself. Some pirates find the sweet taste of revenge to be worth a few million credits. Some also have goals above and beyond making money. You can't generalize all pirates like that.
' Wrote:I think where the lawful base thing is coming from is the reps. If a [N] tagged ship can sit out in front of Los Angeles without the NPC's firing at them...there's something wrong here.
You have not read any of my previous posts have you? :unsure: Ok ... scroll up and read what I've written. Nevermind ... here's a rundown. We are RED with Liberty military / police, etc. I setup "near" a planet and within seconds I'm bombarded by NPC battleship groups. There is absolutely no way I can stay within 2k of Houston or Los Angeles for very long or I get cut to shreds. Hope this helps.
But this does not mean I "cannot" pirate near the planet or bases. It will be much more difficult for me, but I "can" and it "is" within RP for me to do so. I'm not gettin shot up by little NPC fighters here. I getting hit by NPC gunboat, cruiser and battleship groups. So its not like I'm sittin there saying, "that tickles."
I agree that we should not be sitting there with the military and police WHITE or GREEN with us ... but ... that does not mean I cannot be there.
Why don't you just say you want to ban all pirates from the server ... make it a sanctionable offense to be affiliated with pirate NPC factions. That's where we are headed.
' Wrote:Well, smugglers should be docking on lawful bases, not pirates. And yes, pirates should be hostile to their enemies. That annoys the bejesus out of me.
Pirates do not dock at lawful bases. That was not my point. The word "like" means "similarly" or "in the same way." I was making a comparison here. If my Rogue flies to Beaumont Base in Texas and docks. Should we say that the LSF and SA must break off their attacks on me and say, "darn he got away?" I say that's absurd. Hmm ... and according to the posts so far, wouldn't it be a bit wrong for military and police to lay in wait for a pirate who is docked at Beaumont? Shouldn't there be a gunboat groups popping up out of the woodwork with lawfuls near an unlawful base?
"In the same way," if a trader docks on Los Angeles, why should I go away and say, "shux ... he got away?" No, I'm gonna hang around. And I'm gonna stay far enough out so I don't get beat to death by the NPCs ... but I will be close enough to chase the trader wherever he's going.
' Wrote:Rules let pirates to hound traders till they give up, I am not saying anything against this. It is up to the person to spend his time on it or not. That makes me feel as if I am wasting time with it sometimes though and thats all. And a pirate must be in a proper RP against the lawful entities. I can't accept a Rogue, Xeno or Hacker to be even neutral with Liberty lawfuls and not get shot by their NPCs. And this is valid for all other alternatives.
Ok ... how many times do I have to repeat myself here? Well??? And same with the lawfuls ... a lawful better not be neutral to Rogues, Hackers or Xenos. In fact, Rogues are red with Xenos.
' Wrote:@Archelon - So, what you are saying is.. That a Smuggler in a Pirate Train can go around, let's say, New Berlin w/o contraband and no one can attack him or fine him?
Even if he was catched with contraband before.
I mean, Pirate Train.. Smuggler ID.. Police that greets him and wishes him a safe flight.
I would understand infiltrated smugglers, in some sort of lawfull looking ships..
But Pirate Train is screaming : "Lawfulls shoot me!"
I just want to know if that ID is there just so you can tell people you'r a smuggler, or it does have a purpose.
Because, i haven't seen a rule that forbids Trader ID to carry contraband.
Not yet at least.
Then, what is the difference?
Edit : And while lawfull forces have to ask for dropping a contraband, Rival pirates can shoot and kill them.
For example, a smuggler in Gamma smuggling Cardamine. Yes, they would ask for dropping the cargo and let him go.. Right..
I think they would blast him to pieces.
And the same thing would happen if a Smuggler with Artifacts was spotted in Alpha.
Then why can't lawfulls do what they should do?
Smugglers can fly the same ships as any trader. So I don't have to be in a Pirate Train. I have a character with a Junker IFF and a Smuggler ID that flies a Firefly. I fly through New Berlin all the time with legal goods. So why would you or the RM KOS me? Its called RP. If you wanna KOS me because I have a Smuggler ID, then you've gone PVP. Lawfuls do not kill indiscriminately (or at least the shouldn't). If you are caught "doing" something illegal, then the police / military would get involved to protect the population. Why would you kill a smuggler carrying Gold or Consumer Goods?
Should the RM allow someone with a Trader ID carrying Cardamine go about their business because they have a Trader (lawful) ID? If not, why would you kill someone with a Smuggler ID carrying Consumer Goods? Sorry if the Smuggler ID is too difficult for lawfuls to deal with.
Pirates (at least mine) do not hunt smugglers unless they are from an enemy faction.
' Wrote:Could we come to a conclusion, that pirating in front of a police or military station/base/planet is nonsense.
If the Police or Military NPC's could, they would blow every pirate faster, than s/he can say "Sorry".
Attitudes like :tease:stupid NPC you cannot hurt me with your lvl 3 guns, so i do what i want.:tease:
are not the best "Common Sense" of roleplay. I will not say oorp. Oorp is, when the pirat does his work in sight of police and/or military and been not attacked by lawful forces.
Me never was playing a pirate, so i can not make suggestions how traders behavior should be from the pirates view.
Respectful
AoM
Sure ... if we can come to the conclusion that the police do not travel beyond the boundaries of the planets, bases or trade lanes. I mean, why would the police be flying in deep space where there is no population? And why would the military care that a pirate is in the system so long as he was away from the planets, bases and trade lanes.
Let me put it this way ... traders run good between lawful planets and bases ... they use trade lanes and avoid open space. So why would a pirate operate where there are no traders? Dee de dee!!! Pirates operate where traders run ... that "is" RP.
What is "not" RP is a trader that wants to legislate rules making it easy for him to trade and make money. What do pirates do AoM? What is their RP? To sit in open space hoping some stray ship flies by? Meanwhile you traders fly by saying, "hehe looky at the pirates ... they're so cute in their ships just sitting there ... too bad they can't do anything to us."
' Wrote:Well if a pirate is farming in front of a planet say Berlin or LA, he would not survive just by level 3 gun holding tiny npcs. There are frequent patrol spawns around these planets in major house systems which would really make the pirate's time harder.
Yes ... and I'd like to see lawfuls stop farming my Rogues in California.
' Wrote:I'd fly legal cargo in a pirate transport with smuggler ID just to mess with the police/military's heads;)
I'd be more inclined to haul contraband in my house transport with a Trader ID.
Yes - its all about concealment when it comes to contraband.
' Wrote:Caylith has spelled it out big time in her post, if you guys think anything other than what she has posted will change, you are sadly mistaken, if a trader escapes its the Pirates fault not the Trader.
Cheers
True ... but re-engagement rules apply to a fight not trader routes. Hood's made it clear that its the trader's fault if he keeps running the same route over and over again. If he gets away, I follow him and lie in wait. Its been pretty effective. Trader docks and I tell him if he wants to continue trading without me "delaying" him with CDs and such, he can pay me when he undocks and I'll leave. Those that refuse to pay generally sit on the planet until they are base idle kicked, log or decide to pay or run. What annoys me is when the trader docks and says in an OOC voice, "oh well, bedtime anyway" or "I needed to log anyway" in open system chat. I don't mind the trader logging out or letting the system idle him offline. But I do not like the OOC chat that he's going to do it.
' Wrote:Now thats something I can agree with, as my Unioner I have on occasion pirated a trader outside Freeport 2 in Bering. It has never sat well with me, we should be lane-hacking. The Zoners neutrality would be called out if we are openly pirate traders in front of them. I propose for [W] that we stop this behaviour right now because it is wrong.
And yes AoM as I said earlier I think pirating outside a house planet/base is wrong. Pirating is for open space not in full view of the authorities who should by rights be able to blow you to kingdom come in nanoseconds.
Sure ... conduct piracy where there are no traders. Dee de dee ... traders stick to trade lanes as much as possible. Its safer and quicker. So what is the pirate gonna do in open space? Twiddle his thumbs and hope a ship flies by? Remember here that house systems are trade lane saturated. Its not like they have to fly between planets and bases through open space as the outer rim systems do.
Think about the RP here folks. Pirates prey on Traders ... Traders use trade lanes to get from one place to another ... trade lanes go between "lawful" bases and planets ... logical conclusion ... ready for it ... you are gonna find pirates in these areas. Does your brain hurt yet? Unlawful NPCs are often found near lawful planets as well as trade lanes.
Here's something else for you ... should lawful characters be forbidden from dropping trade lanes? I mean ... isn't that like a lawful player shooting at his own base or his own ships? Shouldn't the trade lanes go red with the one that shot it? But everyday you see lawfuls knocking down trade lanes to catch unlawfuls or to prevent an unlawful from catching up to a trader.
' Wrote:Sure ... conduct piracy where there are no traders. Dee de dee ... traders stick to trade lanes as much as possible. Its safer and quicker. So what is the pirate gonna do in open space? Twiddle his thumbs and hope a ship flies by? Remember here that house systems are trade lane saturated. Its not like they have to fly between planets and bases through open space as the outer rim systems do.
In house systems I would lane hack, in far off systems I would anticipate routes and stay close to a well frequented JH. You talk as if I am trying to screw pirates when I regulary play one myself.
I also dont agree with lying in wait for a trader for an unreasonable amount of time if he has managed to escape you. He has docked, whether he goes to the bar or switchs char or undocks and continues on his merry way. Sure by all means attempt to pirate him again but dont wait for him to undock by a hostile base for a lengthy period of time. Catch him on the open road.
The example of you running from the law is the same, so you dock on say Alcatraz after retreating from superior odds, guess what? You have escaped. Wether the LSF and SA choses to stay there and kill the local pirates for a period of time is their choice just as not undocking or switching to another char is your choice. If you wish to undock while you know they are still there you are purposely choosing to fight and defend your home base but no one is forcing you. Alcatraz will remain standing wether you defend it or not.
I think the best way to handle these situations is have the guns on bases raised to a higher damage potential so that theere is a real threat in approaching an enemies base. But then thats just my view, I understand this may promote players hiding by their bases but then isn't it resonable to assume in RP that you should have resonable protection from a massive base in space capable of withstanding Battleship attacks.
It would force battles away from bases and piracy too as well as offer pirates protection near their base of operations.
' Wrote:Speak for yourself. Some pirates find the sweet taste of revenge to be worth a few million credits. Some also have goals above and beyond making money. You can't generalize all pirates like that.
Umm...while I understand your desire for revenge, pirates were never homicidal manics.
A pirate of old did not hunt and rob galleons in the Caribbean because he hated them, he did it for the generous amount of gold he would get by capturing a transport. Not to mention the desperately needed supplies on-board.
A pirate's objective is to survive outside the system. He/she usually has no backup and he/she is usually ill-equipped. A pirate hangs out near major trading centers, just out of sight of authorities. He/she is also quick and efficient.
A pirate pirates for survival, not because he wants to kill people. Go buy a terrorist ID if you want to kill people, because if you have "goals" beyond survival as a pirate then I would say you are probably OORP.:)
Corsairs and Outcasts I can probably understand having different objectives. But someone like the Rouges or Red Hessians, they are pirates to the T.
' Wrote:Blah blah blah blah blah
+10 dude.
Gas Miner's Guild.
We're a guild, that mines gas. Isn't that strange?
We supply Sirius with H-Fuel...like the Middle East supplies oil to the world.
So, put that in you pipe and smoke it...
' Wrote:Umm...while I understand your desire for revenge, pirates were never homicidal manics.
A pirate of old did not hunt and rob galleons in the Caribbean because he hated them, he did it for the generous amount of gold he would get by capturing a transport. Not to mention the desperately needed supplies on-board.
A pirate's objective is to survive outside the system. He/she usually has no backup and he/she is usually ill-equipped. A pirate hangs out near major trading centers, just out of sight of authorities. He/she is also quick and efficient.
A pirate pirates for survival, not because he wants to kill people. Go buy a terrorist ID if you want to kill people, because if you have "goals" beyond survival as a pirate then I would say you are probably OORP.:)
Corsairs and Outcasts I can probably understand having different objectives. But someone like the Rouges or Red Hessians, they are pirates to the T.
+10 dude.
Incorrect, on a number of accounts. Some pirates were well known for slaughtering the entire crew of captured ships. Not out of greed (they already had the cash), not for revenge... Just for fun, or to build their fearsome reputation. Also, characters in Discovery are unique individuals, not carbon-copies of the pirates of old nor Freelancer NPCs. If someone wants to play a pirate who will go to the ends of Sirius to exact revenge on a trader (or anyone else) who escaped/insulted him/whatever, then that's their choice of RP. Saying all pirates would prefer money over revenge is like saying all cops prefer justice over money. Pirates may be in it for the money, but that doesn't mean some things are more important.
And pirates in Discovery are not generally ill-equipped, except for a few limited factions. This isn't just the player pirates, most NPC pirate factions are rather well-off.
Also, the Hessians, if I recall correctly, are much more than 'pirates to the T'. Hessians are trying to carve out their own kingdom in the Omegas, and trying to fight back Rhineland and the Corsairs. Pirating is a means to an end.
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