Metagaming

[Yngen]

Most people simply don't have the time to waste flying blindly about looking for people to interact with.

So unless you enjoy talking to NPCs and blowing them up you have to use the chat screen to optimize your chances to talk with or fight someone with a pulse.

It's not metagaming, its overcoming a Freelancer game limitation. The limitation being that Freelancer was never designed to be multiplayer. All the game designers efforts went into the single player game while the multiplayer was an afterthought. Its safe to hypothesize that had Microsoft wanted to make a real multiplayer role playing space simulator they would have made more realistic ways of finding people than looking at the chat screen.

As it stands we must make do. We have to use the chat screen as our set of 'contacts,' our intelligence gatherers, our surveilors. We use the chat screen in game, but write our stories here on the forums with anecdotes of talking to people in bars, showing photographs, tapping comm signals, paying off Lane hackers or any of the other make believe fashions of tracking a person. Trying to do these things for real is impractical to say the least, and you will never find anyone. Even with 128 people on the server you could still fly around for hours before you encounter someone. I just don't have time for that.

---

[AU]Anton_Blix
-Signature by Doom

[Badger]

Bah, I call bull**** on the using player list being defined as "metagaming". It's the single most important threat indicator in the game. It's not like it's some new unbalanced feature either, everyone has been able to utilise it since the dawn of Freelancer. Are you suggesting we all put the blinkers on and waltz into hostile territory completely oblivious? I don't know about you but I like to think I'm somewhat more capable than an NPC.

When it comes to hunting, yes it tells you what system your target is in, though systems are anything but small. Without using it hunting is impossible. You're just as capable of evading a hunter as they are of finding you. The likelihood of running into someone is increased when traders keep using obvious trade routes and that's no-one's fault but the traders.

I don't think there is anything wrong with using it at all. If you played through the singleplayer you would have noticed that even the NPC's contact you from several systems away to tell you where it's safe and where it isn't. In multiplayer, instead of Juni, your guardian angel is that list of names, numbers and systems. Welcome to Freelancer.

---

Evil The Badger - Blood Dragon
(NovaPG)-Anaguma
__________________________________________________
Faction Status Page
(NovaPG) Message Dump

[Etaphreven]

I agree with most of it.
But for example,like you said.You're a pirate in New Berlin,and you're hailed by a Rh Military pilot.Now that would be pretty logical,because there are other pilots in the system(mainly including NPCs)that could have 'contacted' him.And there are lots of bases and battleships(which normally have more powerful scanners than most ships) that could have send a sort of warning to all RM pilots 'logged in' on the frequency.But that's my point,system

And Badger,why would you like to be smarter than an NPC?Are we not all supposed to be humans(or nomads)?Systems in FL are relatively close,but they're actually 'galaxies' away.The JGs and JHs make it feel as if they were really close to each other.And tell me,what the heck kinda scanner would allow you to know what's going on a system 5 friggin' bloody million light years away?

Conclusion:If I could,I would only allow someone to see players that are in the same system as he is.

[Badger]

And Badger,why would you like to be smarter than an NPC?Are we not all supposed to be humans(or nomads)?

Because NPC's have a tendency to fly battleships into planets. Because NPC's cannot distinguish between an easy to win fight and certain death. Because outside of singleplayer, NPC's aren't capable of any inter-system interaction. Because NPC's don't have the intelligence to customise weapon setups or buy new ships. Because I am smarter than an NPC Etaphreven. Aren't you?

Systems in FL are relatively close,but they're actually 'galaxies' away.The JGs and JHs make it feel as if they were really close to each other.And tell me,what the heck kinda scanner would allow you to know what's going on a system 5 friggin' bloody million light years away?

The same technology that allows you to talk with characters all the way across Sirius, as also displayed in the singleplayer campaign. There are numerous times in the campaign when Juni is flying in formation with you and will pick up something on her "scanner" that is completely out of your range. What's to say she's not checking a list of ships in the system? Or perhaps she's conversing with other friendly NPC's who are relaying their position and situation. Is it then such a jump to assume friendly NPC's could relay information to you in multiplayer as well?

Let's say you're a Bounty Hunter and I'm your target. I'm in a different system than you. How the hell are you going to find me without checking the player list? You can ask someone and you'll get either no response or the system I'm in (because that player checks the list to find out). This "feign ignorance, improve roleplay" ethos is complete rubbish to me.

---

Evil The Badger - Blood Dragon
(NovaPG)-Anaguma
__________________________________________________
Faction Status Page
(NovaPG) Message Dump

[Etaphreven]

I wasn't talking about those darn obvious things:dry:

[Equinox]

Can you even imagen how long it would take to find someone if this feature wasn't there? i don't no about you but I don't have 10 hours of ingame time just to find someone. Metagaming? nope.

---

[McNeo]

Tell you what...

Instead of the system telling where everyone is down to the system, maybe it could be made to be something like this

Player X - Rheinland (Dresden, NB, Frankfurt, Munich, Hamburg, Stuttgart (and the other ones, including Guard systems...)
Player Y - Sigmas (all the systems with Sigma infront of them, such as sigma 13 and any guard systems with sigma in their name)
Player Z - Omegas (All Omegas and their guard systems)
Player A - Liberty (All Liberty and guard systems)
Player B - Taus (All Taus and guard systems)
Player C - Bretonia (All Bretonian systems and guard systems)
Player D - Kusari (All Kusari and guard systems)
Player E - Independant worlds (Between Lib and the other three houses, so you dont know which direction they're coming from.)
Player F - Omicrons (anything with Omicron in their name and guard...)

BUT a problem with this, some areas contain more systems than others.

Maybe it could be sorted by ZoI of NPCs instead?

[Badger]

Yeah, ok.

Orrrr... we could use the player list like we have been doing for the last FIVE years OH MY GOD YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SO ANGRY!!!!

<div align="right][color=#6666CC]Joking by the way ;0)

---

Evil The Badger - Blood Dragon
(NovaPG)-Anaguma
__________________________________________________
Faction Status Page
(NovaPG) Message Dump

[Etaphreven]

Fine.

Or...

you could be open minded like I'm trying to be.

Let me second that...

[Unit-sk855]

topic related!

What TSRP server did you use? What was your name? Ever goto roleplay.us or whatever?

Say hello to Kyle Martinez or Xaiver Ravage. Or Triella Taik, or Fenrin Taik, or a slue of other names. I started with the opera RP on.... i forgot.. we were the Red Dragons, the first "gang" on the server. No chat mods, no nothing. Fully ignored peoples plans to kill each other, was great fun and good times. Then the noob rush came, and the dmers came, and the rise of plugins and the arguments of plugins ruining rp, then then the drama OH MY GOD the drama.

I completely gave up on any hope of RP without a dedicated locked passworded server, with a small group of friends... When HL2 DM rp became the "in thing" i tried it, and i dumped it after getting my storylines stomped on by kiddies that just wanted an excuse to murder people. I was Unit-sk855 in the hl2dm rp's. Combine soldier that was gentle and forgiving, and well lets just say that was the last time i tried to rp there... ever.

But let me say hello, i remember the good old days, and if you ever want to remeniss or share stories let me know XD

also,

I know what your talking about on metagaming, and i agree to a point. However, the player list is considered long range scanners. It works both ways, and without it interaction would be nearly impossible, hunting would be downright boring, and the style of roleplaying here would not work in balance with other factors.

example, factions with 5 people on trying to defend against invasion of another 5 people. They would be to spread out and get annihilated one by one while just trying to find each other.

What you will find here though, is that after a while of learning and understanding how people do things here, you will find ways around people reading a tag/id or system location.

I can work a corsair into new berlin under the RM's noses, and have polite conversation with them while i go about my business in their home system. I can fly a trade ship into a mess of pirates on purpose, and just stun them into letting my pass for free, or for extremely cheap. Or, i can taunt people hunting me into going the completely wrong directions repeatedly by hiding false hints at my locations and motivations in what i say. "Ahh i love jumpholes" while staring at a jumpgate is hilariously useful to get people all over the universe, rather than up your backside.

A good example of this was when SU had a bounty publicly put on my RM character, i knew out of character it was there but played it off as if my character had no idea until another RM informed her of it. Scanning merc gunboats for contraband was always interesting before she found out XD.

Now the only time someone tried calling metagaming on me, was when some silly nilly shot at us RM in a ravens talon, then ran away, docked, and said in system chat "Ahh, is my new ship ready?" and launched on the same character, same name, same ravens talon, and wanted me to leave him alone....

Radio broadcast of switching ships, same name, iff, id, ship and ship class, same base that was docked from, mmmmmm no.

Now had he switched characters as well and actually switched ships? Sure, i would have found an abandoned ravens talon on that base, and that pilot was home free.

Thats about all i got for now o.0 Is nice to see someone else from the old tsrp stuff though:D

Now im remembering arguments about shooting desert eagles one handed, and people not having any real life firearms experience trying to tell people with real life firearms experience how guns worked o.0.

bbbleabalbalaarg

there we go... memory lane trip over.

---

*Wilson shows off his ham sandwich* - Armory.003
*mark placed on Unit-sk855's forehead* - Head hitting the desk as of reading the above