Assaulting Zoners and OORPness

[Drake]

Recently there have been a number of cases of Zoners being attacked, taxed, threatened, etc., and I'd like to discuss that.

The Zoners deal with everyone, lawful and unlawful, Corsair and Outcast. Everyone knows this, and few like it. But the Zoners maintain their neutrality. With very few exceptions (the only known exception being the rumor about Corsairs occasionally assaulting a lone Zoner far away from anything else), no one touches them. Why is this, when they openly deal with the enemies of <insert faction here>? Because everyone, or at least everyone who isn't a House or House corporation, needs them. Even if you, the individual player or player faction, don't feel the need to deal with the Zoners, the NPC faction which you represent does. They may get much needed food or H-fuel or other essential supplies, or they may use the Zoners to haul away their goods and earn them credits. Do the Zoners always come out ahead in these deals? Of course, why else would they do it? But it doesn't change the fact that <insert NPC faction here> NEEDS the Zoners, even if <insert player or player faction connected to NPC faction> doesn't.

Now say an individual player starts assaulting the Zoners, killing them, asking for a tax, etc. It goes without saying that it should be punished as OORP behavior for them then to be docking on Zoners bases, and it should be punished just the same as an Outcast docking on Crete... Just because your NPC rep isn't red doesn't mean it's legal to dock on their bases. But I'd like to point out something else: If an individual pirate started assaulting Zoners, his entire faction would turn against him. Why? Because if the Zoners stopped dealing with them, stopped bringing them food or fuel or whatever, or stopped hauling away whatever commodities they sell, then their whole faction would be in trouble. Therefor I make this statement: Anyone connected to a non-House faction who assaults a Zoner is acting completely OORP. You might be able to live without the Zoners, but your faction (and by this I mean the NPC faction as a whole) cannot.

The same thing goes to player factions. A player faction based off of a non-House NPC faction is acting completely OORP if they start assaulting Zoners. Sure, they may be hauling stuff to your enemies, but they haul stuff to everyone. If they stopped trading with everyone, then their entire neutrality would crumble. This is why the Zoner Council couldn't possibly agree to anything regarding the limiting of Zoner traders, and this is why a player faction threatening Zoners for hauling cargo to a particular place (with the exception of hauling to their bases, such as TBH getting annoyed with all the passengers going to Crete... What are the passengers doing there?) is breaking the RP of their parent NPC faction. The NPCs don't try and limit the trading of the Zoners, because in the economy and storyline of the Freelancer (and Discovery) universe, they need the Zoners too much.

Now this brings me to another point: 'Zoner Immunity'. Okay, if you agree with all my above points (and you should, if I do say so myself :rolleyes:), then the question becomes, "Why would any trader fly anything but Zoner colours?" And here's my answer: I have no bloody idea. I've pondered that question myself ever since Ad Infinitum fell through and I switched over to Zonerdom. Zoners can do anything that a regular Trader ID can do, plus more, and they can fly any kind of ship that they want, AND the vast majority of people won't (and shouldn't) attack them. I really have no idea. The Zoner Council doesn't really support any 'Zoner' who doesn't have both tag and ID, and who doesn't either sign up on the registry or isn't a member of one of the registered Zoner factions. These steps help weed out the 'real' Zoners, those who really want to RP their Zonerness, from the 'fake' Zoners, those who just want to trade without threat from pirates, but who don't really want to put in the time to RP. I seriously doubt the system is perfect, but it's worked decently so far, I believe. Is there anything else that could be done? Perhaps, I'd like to hear some suggestions. The Zoner ID could be made more expensive, but that won't really put off people who just want it for ubertrading. It could be made to require Admin-Approval, but I really don't like that idea. Being a Zoner doesn't really require the excellent level of RP and maturity that things such as a Terrorist ID require.

My points in brief for you lazy SOBs who don't want to read everything:
- It's OORP for people to assault/attack/tax Zoners if their NPC faction (not you, but the faction you claim to support/supports you) needs them (and the majority of unlawful NPC factions really need them).
- Don't try to dictate what/where Zoners can trade (outside odd cases, like passengers to Crete, which are absurd), or who they can trade with. If a Zoner accepts, he's choosing sides, breaking the fragile Zoner neutrality, and therefor breaking Zoner RP.
- What can be done about people using Zonerness just for the trading immunity? A couple of very poor suggestions made near the end of the last paragraph.

That's it, I'm done. Y'all have a Merry Christmas (for those of you who it isn't already over).

[Malaclypse 666]

Interesting and thoughtful presentation, Isaac.

Of course as a Zoner and the Leader of a Zoner faction, my views would be somewhat biased.

As I have a dinner to attend momentarily, I will reserve my comments. I do look forward, however, to the lively discussion I'm sure this will evoke from both Zoner and non-Zoner players.

Once I have digested both the dinner and the comments, I will contribute my "pair o' digms".

Regards,
Mal

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[Jinx]

if thats aimed at the NovaPG. since they are loosly affiliated to the blood dragons, i d advice them that if they decide to call out a war against the zoners, they better get the zoners deep red for all their members. cause fighting zonerplayers but still docking at their stations ( seen or not seen ) should not work.

taxing zoners - i think that is OK if its based on the roleplay. recieving a bounty on your head is the natural zoner response. calling out a war for that - well, no matter what faciton, but calling out a WAR for something like that could be considered utterly oorp anyway - unless you re mental ( your character ).

should zoners be immune to everyone? hell no - tax them, and live with the consequences
should zoners roam freely EVERYWHERE they like? nahh, in pirate home systems/guard systems it should allways be asked for a permission.

with IDs comes repuation. why is a zoner ID different to a BHG ID? if i fly around with a BHG ID - i ll get shot by most pirates. if i fly around with a zoner ID i am usually free to go to most places after i asked nicely. every ID grants rights and limits your character on what he can do. is the zoner ID exploited? - i don t think so. in the end, zoners are traders ( i don t agree with that - but some admin said so some time ago ) - so being traders they can be treated like that. besides, zoners are quite a loose community of individuals .... making all zoners hostile cause of one is about the same as putting all traders ( generic ) on the red list cause one put a bounty on you. ( ok, bad example, but you get the drift )

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Heartless]

well the first thing that came to mind is "the angels" faction, but they're there to help players.

Maybe turn the Zoners into a special faction? Or maybe make it so that you can't be a zoner and a trader...

I don't know, just throwing suggestions out there.

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SwissScorch --> Heartless

[Jinx]

what is the problem? - if zoners are no traders, they are NOTHING anymore. the angels are not part of the roleplay - zoners are. whats all the fuss about it. is it that factions consider it an insult that there are zoner ships flying right into their most sacred systems to trade? do they want to blow more stuff up? - its a roleplay server - zoners are keeping some sort of neutrality from which about every faction benefits.

edit: i still don t know why zoners have the same rights like generic/pure cooperation traders. if it was about me, they would not enjoy those protections - and could be blown up without taxing and attacked by any ship, cruisers, battleships included. of course, there should be a very good reason to do so.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Heartless]

well I don't think it would be the smartest thing to have Zoner traders that can't be taxed/attacked/something of that sort
-but as that is not the case, then do whatever you want.:)

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SwissScorch --> Heartless

[Zelot]

I think the problem here is that anyone who's smart is using a zoner taged transport for their trader charector, and why not, you can do all the trading you want without the risk of those pesky pirates bothering you. So now days probly 2 out of 5 traders I see are Zoner tagged, so pirates are deciding on thier own wether to tax zoner traders or not. Even in the rumours and news in the game, Igiss tells us that the Zoner Nuetrality is an untenable situation, and pirates are showing us that.

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[Jinx]

put it that way ... when i m on clover, disrupting the leeds lanes and see a zoner caught there ( or a friendly alligned trader - which is the same there in this situation ) i ll make it depend on the goods they have. if they are clearly heading to the BMM station ID-14, i ll tell them that they can pass, but better not be caught on that route again, cause then i d tax them.

zoners are not immune - but they are a faction that must be roleplayed with. when i find a zoner transport hauling a cargo full of terraforming gases around - i ll tax him. if he places i bounty on my head ... so be it, not like my character cares much for one more guy after her, cause its allready the majority of bretonia that wants her dead.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Zelot]

I like that Jinx, if they have something that is obviously going to help my people, like food to crete, then I wont tax them, but if it's something for an enemy, their fair game.

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[Drake]

The problem is that hiring bounty hunters to go after pirates isn't really what Zoners do, it's the threat of no longer trading with a particular faction that keeps them from messing with the Zoners in the first place.

Scenario: A member of a particular pirate faction assaults (taxes or attacks, same thing) a Zoner:

Zoner representative: "We demand an apology and restitution for this unprovoked attack, otherwise we shall have to refrain for any further dealing with your faction."

Pirate faction representative: "Oh, crap..."

In general, the unlawful factions need the Zoners more than the Zoners need any individual unlawful faction. This is why the NPC unlawfuls don't bother Zoners, even though Zoners allow the BHG and anyone else to dock on their bases. Anyone who risks the fragile web of neutrality would be dealt with harshly by their superiors, because they can't risk alienating the Zoners. The Zoners should have more to fear from the Houses and House factions (who don't rely on the Zoners for their support network) than the unlawfuls, which is why they invited the Corsairs to Gran Canaria (they were afraid that Bretonia would discover their system and start trying to move in).

I already pointed out the problem with any half intelligent trader choosing a Zoner ID rather than a generic Trader ID, and I already said I don't know how to deal with that.