' Wrote:and here we go, back to the "1 mil or die" argument. First off, some pirates do this, I do sometimes, but it's just to get the demand part of the rules out of the way. It's damn hard to type in satifying RP diologue and try and stop someone at the same time. I DO HOWEVER begin to rp once I have forced the trader to stop( or killed him:)). I have FA and Corsair pirate characters, and when I pirate someone, and talk about my causes, and ideology of my group. Not everyone does it, but on the same level, I see very few traders who conform to what you think is RP. Usualy it goes, pirate fires and gives "1 mil or die" the trader runs untill he knows he's caught, then "ok. stop" "I said stop" , pay the tax, and move along with some generic disparaging remarks on both sides. So neither the pirates or the traders are blamless, which makes the "1 mil or Die" argument mute.
now can we get back to Zoners?
It's fine to be a pirate, and it's definitely fine to tax traders when it makes sense to do so.
I've never encountered you in-game I don't think, so none of the above was directed at you as a player or a pirate. Only pointing things out as I see them most often, perception is everything they say, afterall.
I do demand credits from traders, but I always try to offer them an exciting encounter where they have the opportunity to determine their own fate. The reality of things is that we play with alot of different types of people, and not all of them will want to be pirated, and that's understandable (even if abit lame on a fundamental level). To make the game enjoyable for everyone else sometimes compromises must be made, and that's fine too. I never went into the piracy business expecting to make profit from it, afterall it's a large playing field and there's alot of competition out there; it isn't uncommon to encounter a Trader who has already been taxed by the pirate before you, and taxing him again or killing him is usually pretty harsh. I've been taxed three times on the same trade route before, and still I was killed by the fourth pirate 'cause I refused to pay again (I had already lost all of the profit to be made for that run, a 20 minute run or so, mind you).
Personally, I get really annoyed when a pirate only has "1 million or die" to offer in roleplay. Even though you're a pirate, you should still have to work for your loot in some aspect, and that's where good roleplay comes in. In a perfect gameworld, players want to play with Evil, unlawful characters like pirates because they're so fun to be around (even if the interaction does come at their own expense). That obviously isn't the case in this community, where many players avoid the pirate playerbase like the plague.
I always get people telling me to go to the forums to see their roleplay, and I can't help but ask myself, ".. Why..?" Why doesn't the roleplay happen in-game like it should..? I mean there's obviously alot of talented storytellers here, the only problem being is that it just doesn't always follow these players in-game. I (personally) think the server will be hundreds of times better when this changes. And yes, it is true that most people don't take their trader roleplay seriously. Not even I really do, honestly. Sure, I pay taxes and submit myself to pirates when it's proper, but I don't play that character seriously. I play that character to rake in credits for the other characters I play, and I imagine that's the case for most people.
Is it wrong? Maybe.
Should people be punished for it..? I don't think so, 'cause trading is one really boring thing to roleplay if you don't have pirates to chase you, or if you aren't a smuggler. There's no "grand adventure" in hauling VIPs from Manhattan to Honshu, you know? Not without pirates anyway, for many players I've seen the only reason they even play traders is to be chased by pirates, and not because they want to make a quick buck. People like different things, and in my case.. Flying a Train around playing the generic trader role just isn't one of those things that I like, ahah. I personally chose specifically to play a RepEx shipper, because it meant I would be pirated more often and thus my trading was more exciting. I could've easily went Zoner and just ignored all of you, but that would've just made my role all-the-more dull and boring.
Anyway, back to Zoners..
The Zoners have their own Guard system, don't you think this alone states boldly as to how influential they must be..?
(On the note of 1 mill or die, frankly I'd be happy to hear that. Three times so far I've been attacked and three times the intent to attack has been announced by fireworks rather than a cordial hello. Sometimes the banter comes a little later on. Frankly I think I'm being attacked by counter-measure companies, intent on making me buy more flares. Back to topic)
The Zoners have their own Guard system, don't you think this alone states boldly as to how influential they must be..?
Hogoshu, Farmers Alliance, Gaians, Junkers, The Wild, GMG, and many, many more have their own guard systems. I don't think it is nessesarely indicitive of thier overall power.
Go ahead and pirate me. Really. If I am sufficiently amused by your original approach, I might even slip you a nice bonus.
Now, a little background on the odds of that happening. I am well into amassing, and blowing, my third Billion, or maybe fourth, here on Disco. First as IND, then as FSFP/1st Flax, and finally [~V~] and [TAZ].
In all that time, I have been pirated perhaps three dozen times. Of those three dozen, perhaps a dozen were successful. And of that dozen, I would venture to say that only four or five of the pirates had an original spiel atall, atall. And that ain't counting the Wascal Wabbit of the KNF, Hexagram 23.
Good lord, I've even tried to help a few pirates develop a better repertoire. "I gotta go, man.. can't be bothered...", was the usual response.
I humbly submit that I have absolutely nothing to prove to anyone regarding my own RP, or that of my various Factions' incarnations.
However, if you expect a share of my time or my hard-earned credits; you may just have to prove your own worthiness to receive either.
' Wrote:However, if you expect a share of my time or my hard-earned credits; you may just have to prove your own worthiness to receive either.
I would say that should be the way it goes with all traders. When I am trading, If a pirate wants my money, he had better be able to stop me. Nothing bothers me more than a pirate try to stop me without a CD on board, and then whining that I should give him my money. Mal, see everybody can agree on something:)
...just poking my head in to support Malaclypse...because its important.
This issue goes beyond Zoners, though they will have the most problems with it.
-a character's reputation should reflect their actions (you shoot at me I get angry and tell my friends, they write your name down on a black list... and take you off their invite/docking privilage/have a beer with me list.)
-a character's reputation should impact their habits and lifestyle (you piss someone off don't expect to be friends with them and dock at their base the next day.)
The only suggestion I will make to the TAZ is to more clearly define your zone of influence. Take into consideration the various mini-factions that comprise the Zoners throughout Sirius and decide which of those the TAZ hail from. You have a council of Zoners, let them decide. AW's ZOI is pretty well published but everyone elses seems to be all of Zoner-dom combined. This is too large. Having a ZOI that is accepted by the community means you have the right to deny docking to people you don't like (no matter what color they are in your HUD.)
So: Baffin, Freeport 6? Two bases should be enough right?
When we go outside our ZOIs I think we should be fair game to whatever the wind blows to us. The TAZ can't hold influence over every Freeport in Sirius, and therefor cannot decide who docks at all of them, just the ones they call 'home.' Head out to Freeport 1 and you are drinking with Corsairs and Hessians, either of whom may decide the contents of your hold are desireable, Go up to Freeport 10 and you're snarfing with Outcasts who may require compensation out in space for letting you live.
I will drag =CR= into this as well. We are camping at Freistadt right now but our homies are the Niobium miners from the Taus. We hardly know the Bretonian/Reinland fruit salad in Omega 7 and though it is an IMG base, we cannot expect to hold court on who is and isn't allowed to dock there. Hessian NPCs dock there all the time so if the RHA wish to dock at the very same base we are and blow us up while playing pool in the off ours with us they very well can. If they try that crap in Tau-44, Java or Falklands its another matter entirely.
WOW I have read up to page 7 1/2 and must go to work now but i look foward to reading later, and perhaps add my 2 cents as a roolplay WannaBee.. as a Boxing day fourm (Event) its GREAT the sparing is
Thrilling to watch :yahoo: I luv all Your big brains and your small brains to;)
looking forward to round 13 of this Heavey weight match... (presses REC button on my old VCR)
' Wrote:...just poking my head in to support Malaclypse...because its important.
This issue goes beyond Zoners, though they will have the most problems with it.
-a character's reputation should reflect their actions (you shoot at me I get angry and tell my friends, they write your name down on a black list... and take you off their invite/docking privilage/have a beer with me list.)
-a character's reputation should impact their habits and lifestyle (you piss someone off don't expect to be friends with them and dock at their base the next day.)
The only suggestion I will make to the TAZ is to more clearly define your zone of influence. Take into consideration the various mini-factions that comprise the Zoners throughout Sirius and decide which of those the TAZ hail from. You have a council of Zoners, let them decide. AW's ZOI is pretty well published but everyone elses seems to be all of Zoner-dom combined. This is too large. Having a ZOI that is accepted by the community means you have the right to deny docking to people you don't like (no matter what color they are in your HUD.)
So: Baffin, Freeport 6? Two bases should be enough right?
When we go outside our ZOIs I think we should be fair game to whatever the wind blows to us. The TAZ can't hold influence over every Freeport in Sirius, and therefor cannot decide who docks at all of them, just the ones they call 'home.' Head out to Freeport 1 and you are drinking with Corsairs and Hessians, either of whom may decide the contents of your hold are desireable, Go up to Freeport 10 and you're snarfing with Outcasts who may require compensation out in space for letting you live.
I will drag =CR= into this as well. We are camping at Freistadt right now but our homies are the Niobium miners from the Taus. We hardly know the Bretonian/Reinland fruit salad in Omega 7 and though it is an IMG base, we cannot expect to hold court on who is and isn't allowed to dock there. Hessian NPCs dock there all the time so if the RHA wish to dock at the very same base we are and blow us up while playing pool in the off ours with us they very well can. If they try that crap in Tau-44, Java or Falklands its another matter entirely.
...factions within factions...:)
I'm correcting myself. I've read the TAZ faction status post now (please forgive me for not doing so before.) Apparently they do have a ZOI that includes Gran Canaria.
This however brings up a different issue.
Mal, what does it mean to be 'temporarily autonomous?'
You put in there that every TAZ vessel is a temporarily autonomous zone. Obviously this doesn't mean every TAZ ship is immune to piracy, but it also cannot mean that every TAZ ship holds with it its own ZOI. ZOIs are static and take lots of time to change. A floating ZOI is just asking for confusion.
Interesting discussion.
A couple of things that have been raised that seem to be counter to rumours and back story as I understand it.
Corsairs don't attack Freeport 9(to eliminate the bounty hunter threat to them) because of the threat of a Zoner Juggernaught somewhere in Omicron Theta...
The majority of Zoner NPC groups consist of original Freelancer ships, a couple of fighters escorting a Dromedary...this would certainly suggest trade although the ships have changed a lot since the Dromedary was the best cargo ship available to players...
It would seem to me that the established Zoner method of operation is this:
Supply Zoner bases via trade with other Freeports and/or factions(why should this be limited by some form of ZOI if there's a valid RP reason for it?).
Not attack anyone unless directly threatened. There is a fragile balance to be maintained as a neutral of course.
If someone attacks you, either negotiate your way out of it, run for it, defend yourself or pay up...
then sneakily place a large bounty on the criminal via a third party for deniability(Don't forget to smile at the victim as the bounty hunter sneaks up behind him and stabs him in the back).
If the criminal is backed by a faction or is a bigger threat than can be handled by bounty hunters, take it to the Zoner Council and start the threats(The criminal should at this stage be expected to lose docking rights at Zoner bases as well as pressure put on in other ways..such as making noises at other factions to isolate the individuals or faction. Maybe secretly hiring mercenaries who can manufacture a good cover story to deal with the threat... as a final resort).
Seems to me the consequences of a Zoner being attacked repeatedly would be an opportunity for some good RP, not for posting about OORP.
The OORP would be in having a Zoner tagged and IDed ship and expecting to travel about entirely unmolested.
Or from the other angle, in repeatedly attacking Zoners while still docking at Zoner bases.
' Wrote:@MB52: "What about restricting Zoner traders to only flying freighters (Small) and not the large transports? There has to be some sort of disadvantage to being neutral, and carrying less cargo would be it."
but there is. first of all - and many people will agree there... the pvp aspect of the server is a very important one - so to speak the essence of a good roleplay is the risk/chance to have a good pvp. now being a zoner, you ll see very little pvp. you cannot just go around and blow things up - of course, you cannot do that as a pirate either, but ... lets say there are easy excuses to still do so - like simply flying to where you know you ll meet outcasts.
This is true, but most traders, would use a zoner purely for trading, and transfer the cash to another char, which could get into pvp more often.
Quote:another disadvantage is your rep sheet. ever tried to get all factions - and i would advice to include the BHG aswell + maybe at least the more common guards into your white ( neutral ) range? - its quite some work, considering you cannot really fly around blowing stuff up - cause that would be oorp:laugh:.
I agree on this one, it is hard to get them all neutral, I've done it before and it took ages.
Quote:but lets try to see it from another point of view. ... in one way, you are correct. i made a similar suggestion in an old post, too. practicly i was suggesting to ONLY allow pure cooperation traders ( that is roleplay ALG, Cryer, Ageira etc etc. ) to use those transports. maybe allow generic traders transports up to a medium size ( e.g. firefly ) and freelancers and neutrals ( well, back then, it was common to use that ID, too ) freighters up to 500.
I like this concept, it would make it more worth while to be a trader for a company (which would have the resources for large transports) but also has alot more risk involved. Compared to those who can be neutral to every faction along their chosen route. (Of course this assumes everyone sets their reps properly) The problem isn't realy the true RPers, but the traders who would use neutrality like that, to their advantage to only make money.
And.. this is completely off topic, so I apologize, for possibly de-railing the thread.
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