I like the idea of NY being RP, but, since loopholes are being taken when they shouldn't by some people, then, maybe the lane hacker clan system needs to change.
After all, in the VAST majority of cases, it's the clan that have to adapt to the rules...not the rules to the clan.
Quote:From our experience, an over rank 30 Dagger is the worst of both worlds, and doesn't solve anything.
As much as I respect your faction plan, I don't think it is realistic to expect the rest of the server to suffer for it. "Never attack anything under level 30 no matter how low your own level is" will work just fine for clearing up the problem of pimped LFs blasting newbie Freighters. If this makes your Daggers meat for the beast then the PvP portion of your rank structure shouldn't start until after your pilots have moved into a ship capable of fighting level 30s.
Lovely RP, but server rules that address "the good of the many" are the better choice.
"To gain a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence;
to subjugate the enemy's army without doing battle is the highest of excellence."
' Wrote:Have to disagree with you there.
I am intentionally encouraging our Daggers to remain below level 30.
The reason?
Because otherwise every last "independent" non-clan lawful in Liberty comes after you because they see an easy kill. Some of them do it even when we are under level 30, as happened to me just within the last hour. Even some of the Liberty lawful clan members do so as well. I know this because we had it happening the first few days we were operational.
The only way our Lane Hacker clan system is going to work is if our Daggers have some measure of protection from the Ravens Claws, Ravens Talons, Avengers etc, not to mention the cap ships belonging to all the Bounty Hunters.
We are willing to accept the occasional abuser who targets us when we are under level 30, but only because the gains outweigh the losses. If we put enough financial value on our Daggers to make them viable targets to everyone (upgraded equipment of all types would do it without credits), then I can just about guarantee that we would drop that from our career system in a few days because none of our members would stand any chance at completing the other promotion criteria while running from every other player in sight.
Granted, I have gotten a lot of negative critiques from the community about that part of our system, but those who have joined are working it, and I think they are enjoying the challenge that practically no other clan here provides.
From our experience, an over rank 30 Dagger is the worst of both worlds, and doesn't solve anything.
All that said, PvP in NY in my opinion is the best way to go. There are advantages and disadvantages both ways, but I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.
In any case, I am still waiting for a certain hoodlum to defect from [IND] and join the forces of Righteousness.
Im sorry but that sounds to me like your using the under 30 level rule as a reason to step out of RP. Your expecting that the Lawfuls will just have to sit and watch you going about your unlawful business.
Fair enough if you want to fly Daggers but don't expect everyone around you to change there normal RP because your under level.
In my eyes if you have managed to equip ID and Tag your dagger you should be able to be attacked, you cant try and get out of it by bending rules that wasn't made for that purpose.
so, an example has been stated. - it is now to decide if the sacrifice of the RP in NY; no, i don t think you can properly RP when there is no PvP; outweighs the benefits or vice versa.
First of all, i don t see a problem with what 13cent wrote about the events that happened. if he had been attacked - and if his shields has went down 50% or more, then he was allowed to defend himself. if someone attacked him, this person brought it upon himself.
about low level killings... - well, in my opinion, i see NO problem in attacking a low level player. - that means, a low level player that is certainly not a newbie. that requires some sensitivity about how to spot a newbie and how not. So the usual rhino freighter that is trading cheap stuff from NY to rheinland is hardly usually a vet player that knows what he is about to face ( that is VHFs, novas, capships etc. ) but ... ( i am sorry to use that example ) a [101] outcast tagged player would have been a valid target for my BHG, too. ( that is - if i had been below lvl 30 ). why is that so?
cause i would consider someone that joined a clan to perfectly know what he is about on the server. newbies rarely launch from manhatten and are in a clan allready.
rank doesn t say much about their understanding of roleplay. personally, i would have found it a nice alternative for police factions. navy deals with 40+ players, police deals with up to 40 players - being 29max themselves so they are allowed to attack low levels. now with that thread around, such an attempt would have been a violation of the server, as it appears.
actually, i am unsure if the low level killing has really been such an issue that scared newbies ( true newbies ) away. from my .. rather far away ... view, putting NY to be non pvp ( and as a consequence non RP, even if you want RP there, you won t get it ) hurts quite some factions a lot. rogues, hackers just lost their primary field of operation. the discussion about smugglers and kos lists can be forgotten completely, cause its back to before - smugglers simply stroll into NY and dock. - i don t think we can start to punish smugglers for docking when there is nothing to stop them.
so - currently i do hope that RP AND pvp will be reinstalled in NY. as it was mentioned before - new york just started to become RP - people started to realize they can not loiter around there for NO reason and talk about the latest movies or whtever other ooRP stuff. - and dealing with true newbies will take its time, too.
so allthough i understand that NY had to be turned non pvp again ( cause if you make a threat, you must consequently execute it, if not its just an empty threat ) - i don t agree with it...at least it wasn t put on the heads of specific people ( for most of the part ) - cause that would have been unfair.
Guys, much of this thread should be a no brainier as to how to resolve the RP problem in NY. Here are some suggestions from the old man.
1. Any ship under lvl 30 carrying a Civilian ID may not join in any type of PvP with player characters. This protects those new players joining the server till they can decide what they want to RP and so they can advance in levels.
2. Any ship lvl 30 or over carrying a Civilian ID cannot be attacked by any player character and cannot leave the NY system. This rule is to protect player's storage type ships in NY. This also implies you must have already equipped a RP ID to leave NY after lvl 30 and there seems to be sufficient IDs for sale in NY, if not, a few more could be added to the stations.
3. Any ship, while carrying a Civilian ID may not trade in illegal cargo. Prevents abuse for those not ready to RP.
4. Any ship under lvl 30 carrying other than Civilian ID is subject to attack and signals that the player wishes to PvP.
These rules would still allow an RP environment in NY, and any transfering of items ship to ship can be in OOC chat, or better in private chat.
The server Admins can determine the penalty for violation of the above rules. This should allow RP in NY system using the IDs that can readily be scanned.
Leave it as is. I never cared for the change to PvP in NY. Its purpose as a clearinghouse for the community was, is, an excellent idea. We need a center for all to drink from without fear. I truly hope it remains.
Ok, you just ruined my moring as well as my game last night
@Hoodlum: You can't read, you just can't seem to acknowledge the fact that I was attacked first. That dismisses this whole thread. You say its not just me, your right. But lets admit it, this whole thing is about the two under ranked player I killed in New York last night, and not anyone else!
@Bulldog: Its not crap its the truth so get over it. Talk to me about killing under ranked players when you stop killing newbs in front of Manhattan in your super duper uber ship with uber cannons, and saying "haha you can't hurt me."
@Korrd: Im disappointed. I thought you could read too. :sleep:
@Everyone else:
What I was doing wasn't whoring, and lets face it, its what its all about. If under ranked Xenos used their little power they had and channeled it towards the higher level under ranked players then this wouldn't be a problem.
Its the people that go around shooting level 5,7 and 7's that sicken me. Its not fair game, its slaughter. Me oh Im sorry, if a L.F. Vs a VHF fully kitted out with cids and torps out to wazoo not fair game. I shot two. I don't think that two in a row is whoring. You just wanted someone to snap at in New York because you where bored. I you picked me becuause I usually don't fight this kind of thread. Well guess what, BULLDOGNK, you brought out the bulldog in me and I bite! And this is getting tedious...Admins thinking they are always top dog. Well your wrong! The rules are and the rule creator is, so instead of harassing me in-game Hoodlum or telling me to stop shooting noobs like you, go and read a book or something until Igiss posts about this situation.
Thank you for backing me up. If the admins don't believe I am a fair decent and honest pilot that don't want to absorb the truth, thats their problem.
As soon as PvP comes back to NY, I will be out with my Xeno shooting stuff again. Until then I will be in Colorado. :cool:
Cheers Everyone;)
"Three o'clock is always too late or too early for anything you want to do."
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Equinox, Marburg, Axe, and Morrigan:
I am happy to continue this discussion about our Lane Hacker clan Daggers etc, but the place for it is here.
I apologize for helping to take this thread off topic.
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' Wrote:2. Any ship lvl 30 or over carrying a Civilian ID cannot be attacked by any player character and cannot leave the NY system. This rule is to protect player's storage type ships in NY. This also implies you must have already equipped a RP ID to leave NY after lvl 30 and there seems to be sufficient IDs for sale in NY, if not, a few more could be added to the stations.
I see two major problems with your rule #2:
Most storage characters are over rank 40, so they can't use the Civilian ID, anyway;
If I or another member of the Black Dragons (i.e. the Hogosha player faction in which I'm an officer -- see my signature below) is setting up a new character (which usually means putting $1,000,000+ on the new character to purchase a CSV, weapons and a Hogosha bribe), where do I buy the Hogosha ID in New York? Also, where do I bribe the Hogosha in New York and where do I get missions for the Hogosha in New York, so I can buy a Hogosha ID?
EDIT: Just in case the above isn't clear, Starflier + $1,000,000 = Rank 31.
' Wrote:Equinox, Marburg, Axe, and Morrigan:
I am happy to continue this discussion about our Lane Hacker clan Daggers etc, but the place for it is here.
I apologize for helping to take this thread off topic.
Well it has direct bearing on the subject here and "Daggers" were mentioned by Hood well back in the thread (as well as directly used by Moriarty in argument). My point wasn't to ping on your faction proposal, it was to opine that nobody's faction plan should get in the way of a server-wide rule change that removes significant loopholes and poor letter-of-the-law behavior.:mellow:
"To gain a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence;
to subjugate the enemy's army without doing battle is the highest of excellence."