Why don't planes have rear mounted missiles?

[r3vange]

[color=#FFFFFF]The Americans wish to believe that the age of the dogfight is over, unlike the Brits and the Ruskies.

After the Korean war the dogfight was over according to the Americans, let's make fighters without guns

After the Vietnam war the dogfight was over according to the Americans, ok but we did lose a lot of planes to dogfights which they weren't equipped for, let's put a gun, but the dogfight is over

After the Gulf war the dogfight was over, yet 70% of the engagements were mostly dogfights

After the war in Iraq (le new one) the dogfight was over yet again the majority of the shot down enemy aircraft were shot in a dogfight.

And nope, as much as USAF would like to think the dogfight is over because they have an advantage in BVR, they are not abandoning the concept hence United States Navy Strike Fighter Tactics Instructor program also known as TOPGUN.

And one more thing, with the advance of 5th generation jets the dogfight is definitely NOT over, the BVR missiles are all radar guided, and stealth is the whole point of the 5th generation jet, you can hide it from the radar, but you cannot hide its heat in a dogfight

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[Veygaar]

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Veygaar for Admin Moderator 2013!!!

[Agmen of Eladesor]

[color=#FFFFFF]
And nope, as much as USAF would like to think the dogfight is over because they have an advantage in BVR, they are not abandoning the concept hence United States Navy Strike Fighter Tactics Instructor program also known as TOPGUN.

I feel the need... the need for speed...

:)

Actually I was wondering when someone was going to bring that up. Especially since that was such a cool movie.

ACM, or air combat manuevering, is NOT an outmoded concept. However, one thing to realize is that it's very, very UNLIKELY that the person who is chasing you and going to shoot you down is actually directly behind you.

The same thing applies in real life as in Disco - if you're in straight and level flight while you're in combat, you're doing it wrong. That's also why we don't have real lasers in Disco - all of our weapons have an actual weapon speed, and thus they must be some kind of plasma weapons - and that makes them very similar to big machine guns. If we had actual lasers - which are light speed weapons - there would be no projectile speed, they'd be point and instantly hit at any kind of ranges that we're liable to be fighting.

Anyway - first off, you're not going to be doing ACM at Mach 2. You might be popping the occassional missile off at someone, but that's only if you're involved in a closing engagement. Airspeed for ACM are going to be between 350 and 700 mph - because if you kick in your afterburners, you're basically putting yourself open for a heat seeker up the tailpipe - a slightly more explosive version of our beloved CD's, eh?

Secondly, most shots are what are called deflection shots. That means that the pursuing pilot isn't directly behind the pilot being pursued, he's at an angle and shooting at where the pursued plane WILL BE when the stream of bullets get there - hopefully. Of course, the pursued plane is jinking, weaving, and turning, too. Thus you normally see 1 - 2 second bursts.

So unless you had some situation like where Will Smith was being chased in Independence Day, you're really not going to see much of a need for anything directly rear facing. And in ACM anyway, you're mostly scanning ahead, to the sides, and checking your instruments - that's why all the HUD displays, because you simply can't TAKE time to look behind you.

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Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.

[FGDireito]

Quick question, why don't planes in the real world have missiles or weapons that can fire towards the rear?

The only time I've seen this idea be implemented is in Firebird (a prototype super-jet with rear mounted missiles) and arguably Star Wars in the Hoth battle.

I can only see it as aerodynamic and weight issues, is there a real reason?

you mean like this?
http://youtu.be/FOaGhE_sejI

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[Agmen of Eladesor]

you mean like this?
http://youtu.be/FOaGhE_sejI

You know what's REAL funny?

I just saw my son's name as one of the people that was in that combat or part of the group.

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Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.

[r3vange]

I was refering to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOPGUN , Agmen not the movie :D

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[Grumblesaur]

Ah my bad, it was one of the Sabre types.

@Hielor, it was still in the same mindset that there would be 'no-dogfights' if you could have stand off weapons, as history shows, you cannot bank on that.

Well, the F-86 had machine guns. Six of them. As did the MiG-15. And the F-86 was used more often than the F-100.

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A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.

[Agmen of Eladesor]

I was refering to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOPGUN , Agmen not the movie :D

So was the movie.

And it had such a cool soundtrack, too. (The movie, not the actual airbase.)

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Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.