' Wrote:I haven't been part of the Phantoms. But honestly a faction like the Phantoms is just like the IND. It's the players as a whole that make it, not the leadership. I don't think you can blame Zelot all alone of activity issues. If nobody wants to log willingly and just do it when the leadership ask them to do so, then it's the whole faction itself that has an issue, not the leader.
I'm not really sure what to say about your post there beyond that it is, simply put, the most inaccurate statement concerning faction life and activity uttered by a person of experience in the history of this forum. Let alone inaccurate concerning the point expressed in the post it's attempting to address.
That being said, perhaps the standard bearers could make way.
' Wrote:I'm not really sure what to say about your post there beyond that it is, simply put, the most inaccurate statement concerning faction life and activity uttered by a person of experience in the history of this forum. Let alone inaccurate concerning the point expressed in the post it's attempting to address.
That being said, perhaps the standard bearers could make way.
Then I don't know what to say about your post either. Show me a faction where activity can be done without members ? For example the USI had no leader for almost a month. Yet they still managed to keep their activity up because they love their faction. Of course recently they did the necessary stuff to put a new leadership in place.
But my point stands. A faction with no leader can keep going. A faction without members will not go anywhere.
' Wrote:The ZOI map is fairly general geographicly. I dont want to close down avenues for rp just because a map that we put up says we cant go somewhere.
Edit: And you dont think the Brets know about Lewis now that there is a heavy stream of Valors coming out of the Jumphole?
I have also never been a big fan of "secret" systems that characters must not find out about. This argument is usually accompanied by members of said faction racing for said system to avoid an engagement and then claiming they cant be followed since the system is "secret"
Back to topic, dunno about racing factions but I read on some infocard "This system is only known by GRN and Gaians" or so.\
Quote:The entry points into this system is not known on any lawful database, and only the Gaians know actually where this system is. The location of this system is on a need to know basis, it is usually considered Top Secret information.
' Wrote:Then I don't know what to say about your post either. Show me a faction where activity can be done without members ? For example the USI had no leader for almost a month. Yet they still managed to keep their activity up because they love their faction. Of course recently they did the necessary stuff to put a new leadership in place.
But my point stands. A faction with no leader can keep going. A faction without members will not go anywhere.
I kind of strongly disagree with that. We've seen over and over factions that simply die down because the leadership just doesn't inspire the membership to log on. Nothing happens, the faction stagnates, and the membership really doesn't want to just constantly sit there with no progression. The leadership is not just there to "look cool" or order people around. It's there to actually give people activities ingame that go beyond the simple "log on, shoot enemy, log off".
We've seen new factions that can pull members out of thin air through just the activity of the leadership. I think [KPT] is an extremely strong example of that, for the short time that it existed. It's not particularly hard, a faction needs to have a strong and active leader - or failing that a strong and active high command that can replace its "losses". Otherwise it ends up like a couple of factions that will not be named where nothing really gets done ever, and they remain constantly below the median of activity on the activity chart, never really elevating themselves above it. A faction like that "exists", but it only hogs the official faction slot.
Hence the question of how exactly is the leadership of the faction that Zelot runs (who has way too much on his hands right now no matter how anyone puts it) is going to look like.
Quote:Back to topic, dunno about racing factions but I read on some infocard "This system is only known by GRN and Gaians" or so.\
It is hard to control cause some players just don't care about what was written in an infocard or don't care if a system is guard or not. I just more like this honest ZOI than those ZOI that after some time get "expanded". Maybe they will never enter some of those systems. But if some faction is allied with Ronins and has GRN fleet who entered its guard system question is will it allow its allies to help them or it will chase enemies alone cause it was their "top secret"?
Edit: abot leadership: there was many many attempts to make "good leader" psychological testes and ways to discover those people, but without success.
We can give them a chance, and if it doesn't work let them change leadership. We can't compare them with any other faction cause that are different factions with different roles and players in different circumstances...
' Wrote:If nobody wants to log willingly and just do it when the leadership ask them to do so, then it's the whole faction itself that has an issue, not the leader.
It's about incentive. If the faction leader cannot manage a faction, it will die eventually. Look at the Phantoms, they didn't die because they didn't have members, but because the leadership was too focused on other stuff (being admins, leading other factions, etc) to make something cool with it. I'd say more, but Blodo summed it up quite nicely.
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Mephistoles
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I think a distinction needs to be drawn between leadership necessary early in a faction's life, and leadership necessary in a mature faction. If I had been as active in the Lane Hackers early in its life as I have been over the past 2 years, I seriously doubt it would have survived, much less thrived. At this stage, however, there is an institutional memory that exists in the faction that is passed down even without my active presence. In other words, there are Lane Hackers now who behave in ways that I and the early members pioneered and that we have never had to directly teach to today's new members; they learn it from other members who learned it from other members, and so on back to the original crew. But the key is that the faction became an institution largely because it had strong leadership when it began.
Dusty's point is still a valid concern, since whether or not Zelot can devote adequate attention to the faction really is a key issue. It would seem to me that the ultimate proof of this is to be found in the actual performance of the faction, however. If he can't be a decent enough leader, then the faction will fail. If he can, then it will be more likely to succeed. The members attracted to it are of course relevant to those outcomes, but the leadership they coalesce around is key. That means, of course, that the faction ought to go through a normal trial period just like every other new faction nowadays. These aren't the days of 4 years ago when a proposal could get approved just for being written up well.
Finally it is inevitable that this proposal is going to reek of nepotism, favoritism, and elitism. Zelot was a key member of the Dev team, a key developer of this npc concept, and is also an Admin. Nobody in those positions will be able to create a faction without looking like he's engaged in self-serving and exploitation of his position. As I have contemplated creating a new trade faction lately, I've been concerned about the same issues. Appearance is not necessarily reality, however, and expertise does transfer across domains. Naturally the person who develops an npc concept is in a unique position of knowledge to create a player faction off of that concept. The same is true for the developer of the mod's economy creating a trade faction. It simply can't be helped. But neither is it a death knell.
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The only person who can judge my time commitments is me. No offense Dusty, but that is the truth. I know what my commitments are much better than anyone else. It is something I have spent time thinking about. I have built up a high command in both the TBH and the Exiles who I believe will be willing and able to keep things happening if I should no longer be able to do it. I don't have any plans to leave disco, but then again most people don't when they end up not having time for Disco. I have led and built my factions so that at any time, I could disappear and be the factions will be able to continue.
As to the question of the quality of my leadership, I think the fact that I created the AFA over 4 years ago, haven't been in the leadership in over 2 and a half years, and through up and downs it remains, so much so that most people have no clue who the FA are, but they know the AFA. TBH has been around even longer, and yes, there have been ups and downs. Any faction that has been around over 5 years will have that. The IND? They are fourth on the server in online activity and have been around longer than the AFA or the TBH. I have never been a member of Samura, though I have a fondness for the faction.
In the end, I think the only people who can judge my faction leadership are those people who are in my factions. If they wish to speak here, so be it. I am not going to sit here and defend my time to the community. That is not something anyone but me can judge, and people just have to choose to trust that I am not looking to have factions that cannot survive beyond me or not. That is up to the individual, but until there is a rule about how many faction leaderships a player can be involved in, it will remain my issue to decide and my issue to deal with.
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