(02-27-2013, 11:36 AM)Cannon Wrote: I think this is a difficult situation. Many people are bored and this is a factor. Availability of the game is becoming a problem - legal availability anyway - we're going to try to do something about this too. I'm hoping we can use the demo FL version as a basis for discovery and thus allow anybody to more or less legally play it.
Steam and green man gaming both offer Freelancer for a very fair price for those who want a legal copy. I myself still have original disk from wayyyyy back.
(02-27-2013, 01:35 PM)Hawk Wrote:
(02-27-2013, 08:31 AM)Ingenious Wrote: What can we change to reverse this trend? Why are people leaving?
This right here. If people start with this attitude then there is a chance. For everyone out there that wants to complain and point and all the things that are being done wrong I will ask again, what are YOU doing to make this better. Every person who plays this game has the opportunity to improve role play, reach out to more players, and find new ways to make the game interesting. Are you doing this? If all you are doing is complaining in these threads and expecting other people to "fix" the game, don't spend too much time waiting.
You say people do not offer to help?
Sorry some of us have offered to help, and tried to help for many MANY years now. Thing is admins, and devs are only players who can really do a dam thing, and if your not thier skype pals then you are shut out, and ignored.
You claim i am very negative here. Ever wonder why? Could it be certain faction Leaders shut me out when i offer to help them? Could it be certain factions change rep ninja's to suit Thier RP, and screw the hundreds of indies without even asking thier oppinions?
Could it be admins/devs giving their pals on skype thier own secret factions, and ships over the years, while shafting any indie who does not want to join thier faction RP?
You been here a long time Hawk, and i used to respect you, but you should look at the above, and ask yourself just how many of these things you have done/fall under.
I would love to help Disco, but i have got 0 power to do so. I am no ones pal on Skype, Hell i deleted it. So i will never get any.
I have posted topics where many agreed with what i sugest, only to have admins lock it in past.
All the admins refuse to put a max to pirating demands, so go figure you get griefer pirates looking for blue messages, and traders going for the F1s. Hell i have seen pirates demand 100mil, and trader F1 saying the fine will in no way be more expensive.
So seriously admins/devs. Get off your thrones, and take a look at what you have done in past and ask yourselves. DID I EVER SHOW FAVORTISM TO ANYONE, OR ANY ONE GROUP/FACTION?
Then you might just understand why many are leaving, and why many rage.
In our defence I'd like to say your desire to take part in the staff hasn't gone unnoticed and I'm not the first admin or only one who takes your desire seriously and indeed it's the fact that we know you will show utterly no favouritism that keeps bringing your name up for consideration in the selection process. Your extensive useage of hyperboles when your upset is a bit scary though since I for one am not always sure if you really mean those exaggerations or use it for dramatic effect to get attentions on a topic or not.
Recently departed member here - I'll chip in a bit about why I left.
Basically, what you have going on here is frankly amazing, some of the most fun I've had in a gaming community. But that's only when it actually works like it's supposed to - running into the right people and having those memorable interactions. But when this place is at its best, man, it's awesome.
Sadly, I found that as my time here went on, those amazing moments became fewer and further between, while the average level of quality of people I was running into continued to degrade. It got to the point where most anyone who I ran into was either a broken-English class A moron who probably had never read the server rules, or a certain class of more intelligent but also more malicious juvenile who sought to bend those rules so that they could shoot whomever they wanted.
In short, the good encounters grew more and more seldom while the bad ones grew more frequent. Finally I got fed up with it and realized I could go to a number of other communities and at least have everyone around me speak fluent English and possess a base level of maturity and competence.
Anyways, I know Cannon, many of the admins, and some of my old RP friends are still here and still working hard to build this community - I commend you for that. I'm honestly not sure of anything reasonable I could suggest that might bring someone like me back to the server, but I hope this place stays around and is able to remain relevant moving forward. With the recent trend of quality people leaving, however, I'm beginning to think something big may have to change in order to reverse the course.
... you want Dublin/Detroit back as the top economy run in the game? The reason that was nyxed was the amount of silliness in the system, and the admin workload generated as a result. That said, if people want a higher gold run to Liberty back, I'm sure something can be worked out.
Isn't the sign of a healthy community increased admin workload? I'd expect more RP, and more interaction to generate more friction, sanction reports, events, SRP Requests, etc. Reducing admin workload feels like a pretty hollow reason to kill a popular trade route . . .
I mean, I don't intend to sound ungrateful. I'm glad we have admins to take care of this stuff, but we should be doing what we can to encourage more interaction. How many more systems are we adding in 4.87? I feel that you shouldn't be dismissing Anaximander's opinion so quickly.
(02-28-2013, 01:38 AM)Manticore Wrote: Anyways, I know Cannon, many of the admins, and some of my old RP friends are still here and still working hard to build this community - I commend you for that. I'm honestly not sure of anything reasonable I could suggest that might bring someone like me back to the server, but I hope this place stays around and is able to remain relevant moving forward. With the recent trend of quality people leaving, however, I'm beginning to think something big may have to change in order to reverse the course.
This grabbed my attention. So will pipe in.
I do not in anyway think the staff is not working hard on the server, and i thank them for it.
However over last 1-2 years i have seen many vets leaving. I chatted with a few, and all in some form or another left because of changes catering to the new, and not the old. Sort of quantity over quality IMO.
I see it all the time on forum here. Some new group wants something changed that vets have been playing with for years, and admins choose to change it for the new players, despite the vets wishes it stays the same.
Almost like they change to keep new players, and just assume the vets will stay, as they have been here for a long time already. But the drop is proving that wrong.
My biggest issue is with rules going away. Rules we had for a long time, and worked to keep server running smoothly, although causing work for admins.
Now sorry to say it, but the admins are dead wrong here IMO. They keep saying we will take away these rules, as the server with know what is right, and what is wrong, and just use common sense. Well sorry to say it, but the internet is becoming full of more and more people who show they have no respect for other players, and when given a little slack they will run rampant and do all they can to ruin others fun.
It is like taking away speed limits, and thinking people will just drive at safe speeds.
Well, among other things that people here have mentioned, 1 thing gone missin.
I seriously think the devs should raise the starting credits, it's easy to imagine that a new player will see the diffeculties in acquiring a better ship/credits etc ( and this in some degree reflect on all of them ).
Now, I dont' mind sending some mills to new players, because in a way..I feel that if i don't, they will leave ( and i get p'mmed every so hours ).
Also, [Angels] are not always online and It's true that they also have other things to do, probably other chars to take care as well, but in a nutshell, we shall raise the starting cash and make it easy for them to start the game.
After all, no one likes to work hard ( psychology warning ) so we should help them out in this regard because new players always have high expectation from things ( im sure ya'all agree ).
My suggestion is : 200K ( This will give them a fair start but will encourage them to work harder ).
(02-27-2013, 08:28 PM)Blodo Wrote: Just out of curiosity:
Quote:Now with everything being easy there is just nothing to achive and people leaving. Victory.
How is stuff any easier to get now than it was in 4.84? Or is it just that all the "oldbies" already got their billions off of a mining gold rush/cheater money and bought 20 battleships and now they are bored?
Maybe we really could use a server account wipe...
First of all, I keep saying that wipe is good, go ahead please.
Second - I made with mining somewhere around 10% or less of my cash. I'm making cash with smuggling because it's a way funnier.
Third - You keep thinking that moneritary inspiration is good so you can't make your narrow mind to see that there was another currency in change back then with all those hated factions, rules and stuff which are removed now.
It's name was respect, trust and popularity. Yes, if you're no one you couldn't fly Freelancer katanas. That was making people to work hard to make a name for themselves. An individual was able to be popular with a starflea on his only one account and someone with all caps in the game was no one that is. You can always remember names of those who was putting a great deal of creativity into the game and was gone after all the nonesence that was introduced in order to fight off the "elitism", "favoritism" and other things.
Now game doesn't requier me to do anything to gain any of those goodies. I just can buy ship, if I have cash, and fly it till I bored. I don't even have to be creative to make people like that character so if I'll run out of names one day I'll start to give them numbers, why not.
So basicly with nothing bigger to earn and achive people just play here, play there. Try this faction and that. Gets bored and leave.
... you want Dublin/Detroit back as the top economy run in the game? The reason that was nyxed was the amount of silliness in the system, and the admin workload generated as a result. That said, if people want a higher gold run to Liberty back, I'm sure something can be worked out.
It doesn't have to be Dublin/Gold, it was just an example at something that made the server come alive and feel less stagnant. You were Carsten Miller back then, weren't you? I remember RP'ing with and getting help from him, and as I recall it there were lots of RP in Dublin and on the stretch back to Liberty.
In regards to Admin workload, I can understand - I think if there was a new system with über mining, and it was placed in the Omicrons, there would be less need for regulation / it would be less intrusive on lore and those factions that dominate the different houses.
In regards to a decline in RP in general, it started years ago when some of the true legends left for different reason. The ones in place to take up command after the legends left weren't of the same material. Rather than authority being invested in players based on their charisma and abilities to lead, it slowly took a turn towards authority being invested in players solely based on the tag on their ships and their skype friendships. That was left to stew for quite a while, and at the same time any sort of critique on the forum was viciously struck down by a team of old players. Now some of those forum warriors have left, and things have loosened up a bit, people can voice their critical opinions without getting shunned, getting threads locked and getting shouted at. But maybe that's too little, too late.
tl;dr: When the factions forgot to treat newcomers to the server as assets and boons, and started to actually believe in their own delusions and started spreading those (for instance the ever popular artificial divide between indie/faction players, snub/cap players etc.), they effectively began to crush the community. Look at Manticore's post above - it is representative for a point of view that I am met with a lot: That the deterioration of the server and the community is due to new players being nubs, totally dismissing the fact that we were all nubs at one point and only got better because some took the time and effort to teach us. So instead of pointing fingers and blaming caps, new players, indies and so on, start by taking a long look in the mirror and ask yourself what YOU do wrong.
What a sudden founding. Of cause people who was oriented on RP, leading and such stuff would leave the server when administration team and devs themselves spit at their face, call them eleitist, favoritist cuиts and start to prefer the powertrading\mining noobs with caps over the quality of RP.