Pirate ID insufficient.

[sovereign]

Thanks. I think we should link this to the leaders of the factions representing these people and get down the exact specifics (like the Hogosha thing, thank you for correcting me there). From there, we should submit to igiss and have it in the next version. It will be nice to get attacked by people who know what they're doing even when I'm outside of Liberty.

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[e3jeremey]

I'm all for it. /signed

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[Daniel_Feenix]

/signed

I feel that the cookie-cutter Pirate IDs are limiting the role-play potential of these factions.

[sovereign]

And Sovereign's "Guide" (which is nicely written, I might add) is on page three, unless I am mistaken.

from another thread that shouldn't be cluttered with this; You honor me, Virus.

On to the meat of this post, I've gotten plenty of positive feedback on it but I'm fairly certain it isn't perfect, or even so good you can't make it better: please take a look through and comment on any faction you know well enough, either fixing something or approving of it equally wished.

Once again thanks guys for all the support.:D

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[Horon]

my thinking is that most of these factions we speak of would need a source of income, i.e. pirating to fund their war. i don't think they can afford to just blow up everything and risk losing proffit.

[rant] YES! I mean. *ahem* If you were to attack everyone you come across, you aren't getting much. Well..Take the Phantoms for example. How do they get supplies? It says in the infocard that they contact unlawfuls for supplies, information, etc. Who do they contact if they are allowed to kill EVERYONE. How does a terrorist get a ship? Most terrorists have no faction, and attack MOST factions. For example, Civilian ships, like the Roc for example, are designed by Zoners. Every time I have come across Terrorists, a lot of them appear to fly Zoner made ships. How do they get them? How do they SURVIVE? If your RP made your repsheet, then the only place you would be able to dock would be Connecticut, which would seem rather OORP. I also don't exactly see any food in the bars in Connecticut either. [/rant]

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While being quite funny, your sig was the biggest one i've ever seen so far. No more than 700x250 please. ~utrack
http://pastebin.com/SYQXBufs

[Dusty Lens]

Xenos theoretically receive supplies and funding from various shipping companies hoping to strike an indirect blow at foreign competition.

[Unseelie]

Xenos are about as much a pirate group as any other....they spend time attacking detroit munitions because they need the guns. Gaians I'm sure have funding from less radical eco-freindly groups and fronting organisations, the BD are funded by the GMG, and have their own asteriod, which could easily be a self supporting environment, GC have massive support among the younger populous of Kusari, and also have Cardamine sales to fund them.

SED: Criminals abound.
Criminal does not mean thief, though it includes thief. It would be perfectly reasonable for many of these factions to be at least partially self sufficient.

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[sovereign]

Xenos theoretically receive supplies and funding from various shipping companies hoping to strike an indirect blow at foreign competition.

Did not know that. Thank you, I might add that to the 'guide' at some point. You also did a wonderful job awhile back in offering to escort me out of liberty when I came in from Bering; it seems proper RP for xenos.

<explanation, response to Single Earred Dude>
Phantoms are far too mysterious for us mere mortals to bother with, and they're doing fine handling admission and RP. As far as I can tell, anyway, if anyone disagrees I'm sure they can find the appropriate thread to complain in. Not here.

As far as terrorists acquiring ships, the vast majority of them are terrorists with a cause, likely a few lawful supporters (Bundschuh, for example) willing to give them some funding or acquire ships for them, and probably won't be attacking all lawfuls, just the ones they don't like. Example: Gaians have no reason to attack, say, Universal as far as I can tell, without some serious RP stretching. On top of having inside men (in-game; acquiring ships before going openly hostile), zoners are neutral to everyone except the scant few they like. No terrorist faction except POSSIBLY the phantoms (at their discretion...) has anything against the zoners, and shouldn't feel OORP for using the freeports as safe havens; that's what they are designed for. The same goes for buying their ships.

</explanation>

Thanks for bringing that up, as I'm sure some people might not know where to go for funds after getting their tags/ID.





EDIT: Looks like Unselie got to it before I finished typing. Wow, didn't seem so long until I posted it.

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[Equinox]

That was a little undeserving I think... now if someone had suggested we give Liberty Rogues terrorist IDs then I would totally agree.

However, a lot of the 'pirate' factions really should be terrorists. I count:
Bundschuh- obvious, their ID specifically mentions they resort to piracy ONLY when they can't get funds through legit supporters in Rheinland. other than that, they just try to destroy the corporations gnawing at their home (and nab the goods to avoid piracy). Military and police targets should be engaged if around but not hunted, as they aren't the problem, just an obstacle to the solution.
NOTE: While Red Hessians started the same way, their info says that they abandoned ideals in the face of the riches of piracy. Hessians are pirates, Bundschuh are terrorists.

Xenos- also obvious, their idea is that anyone 'guilty' of trading with foreigners should be executed for treason, not that they should be mildly inconvenienced. also they don't care about anything else, any Xeno member attacking someone trading exclusively within Liberty should be shot by their own kind for violating their principles.

Gaians- they should be allowed to freely seek and destroy anything tagged planetform. The entire existence of the company is sacrilege to the Gaians and should be their primary concern. same goes for Orbital Cruise and Spa for egging on planetform, but OCaS shouldn't be hunted so much as shot on sight. everyone else should be left alone except in self defense, really.

Mollys- I don't know so much about their reasons for trying to take over/revolutionize Bretonia, but they should have no reason to not destroy every last Bretonian goverment supportive anything they can. this includes BMM, BAF, and bretonian police. Everyone else they should follow the rules for piracy.

Farmers Alliance/LWB- They want Synth Foods to die a painful death for killing their jobs and rotting their houses. They should show no mercy to Synth Foods employees, but only attack others in self defense (bounty hunters, for example). Although, they should be allowed to pirate friends of Synth Foods following normal piracy rules.

Unioners- they are NOT pirates as some seem to believe, but simply people who (justifiably) REALLY HATE daumann heavy construction and kruger minerals for the way they treat their employees. Go to Dresden and stand in a radioactive mining cloud for a few months and try to not get cancer/die. They should have no mercy for anyone supporting the two industrial-revolution style companies, and this includes the companies themselves, Rheinland military and police (who sanction their 'crimes'). Everyone else they attack should be either self-defense or follow normal piracy rules (they shouldn't have to do that, seeing as they can just grab full loads of diamonds off of kruger).

Golden Chrysanthemums- these women see Kusari as abusive of women and want to fix it in any way possible. they are rather militaristic if you read their backstory, and should have NO MERCY WHATSOEVER for anything arguably chauvanistic. This includes all lawful forces operating in Kusari, as the government shuns women and the companies seem to have no respect for the gender. EDIT: They also want hogosha destroyed because of their connections to Samura, and will freely support the junkers to try and break the stranglehold Samura has on the Kusari Goverment. they shouldn't bother pirating anyone, and should only attack the ageira and DSE operatives in hokkaido to help their friends the blood dragons- probably piracy rules should be used there, as its only the materials that aren't allowed to get to the jumpgate, nothing personal against the workers here.

Blood Dragons- Samura employees are traitors to Kusari and must be executed on sight if at all possible. The Kusari Naval Forces and Police, as well as bounty hunters, are guilty in trying to stop the noble goals of the blood dragons and should be executed on sight as well. NO ONE ELSE should be terror-victims, or even piracy victims- the Blood Dragons need popular support. Hell, the BD might want to HELP anyone else in Kusari to further their cause. (referencing here the info bit about how BD are unhappy to be equated with GC, who terrorize everyone in sight). They should also pirate the ageira and DSE people in hokkaido but leave as many alive as possible- they want to improve their image as merciful while still preventing the chugoku jump gate from being completed.

Outcasts- These guys are a little tricky, as they don't need to pirate, following their absurd wealth, but they do need to keep the smuggling routes open. They shouldn't openly terrorize liberty, as they need to keep the market open, but should have no qualms about executing well planned no-questions-raids on anything that gets too close to a smuggling route. LPI, beware.

EDIT: Nomads want to murder every last man, women, and child, and anyone complaining about getting attacked by Nomads "OORP" should be slapped. There is no such thing as an "OORP" Nomad attack (except on other nomads), only a worse-RP attack and better-RP attack. I have total faith in the Keepers to discriminate properly, and the NPCs seem to have the 'shoot everyone on sight' thing down pretty well too.
Hogosha are quasi-legal and DEFINITELY not terrorists, and the following I consider pirate factions, not terrorists;

Liberty Rogues
Lane Hackers
Corsairs
Red Hessians
I have a feeling I'm leaving out quite a bit here, but this *should* cover who can terrorize what. Please comment.

The Outcasts are not terrorists. I wouldn't even call molly's terrorist either. And its said Unioners have given up terrorism and are just Pirates now.


The only factions on that list that should be terrorists are Farmers Alliance and Gaians, maybe GC but then we already have a terrorist faction in Kusari so I don't think they need two.

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[Unseelie]

The point isn't so much, anymore, that these groups are terrorists, not in the case of the Outcasts, anyway, its that they aren't Pirates. The Outcast House is a rogue nation, and has no reason to resort to piracy, and should not be classified as a pirate group. They should be classified as a nation at war with Kusari, Rheinland (hostile??) and Liberty, and neutral towards Bretonia.

And, why shouldn't there be multiple 'terrorist'(revolutionary) factions? they have different goals, and just because liberty only has one group...and bretonia is only proposed to have one group..Rheinland has two groups as well(noticing a pattern? the less free the nation, the more revolutionaries as opposed to regular criminals). The fact is, the only real 'pirate' groups in Sirius are the LH, and the corsairs (who, if you haven't noticed, are spread out across every region of Sirius.) the other groups are more localized because they have, generally, a specific cause. Piracy, generally, does not do much to champion a cause.

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