So hey, about the recent Zoner drama. Use it much?

[Thyrzul]

I see your point, it could be used as a way to re-stock their base levels back up again. Give them some breathing space to do it for a week or two, then go back to before. But the thing is, they've posted on forums about doing this for a peaceful solution. So if they change again in a weeks time "for no valid reason", then this time around everyone can see ZA for what they really are.

I just wonder why the previous occasions of similar backstabbing wasn't enough for everybody to see what the ZA really are.

That's what I think anyway. Other Zoner factions have nothing to lose by saying "OK, we'll play along with you for now, see if you stick to your word or not". If they don't, then back to World War III again. Ha!

Well, if the scenario I mentioned might eventually be true, and ZA indeed does a refill, the attackers could pretty much lose all their time they spent on draining the regens, as it would have been for nothing, if after then they just simply let ZA to refill.

I am still waiting for the admins and devs to fix the bases.

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[Arioch]

Guys, chill about the Zoner-Order leak story.

I think the fear of "All Zoners will be red to Houses!" is unfounded

Relax.
Look at it as an opportunity for rp.
Even though it is not the cool type of rp...

So better other Zoner factions play along for now and see if things do change with ZA in a week or two, I don't see how they have any other option really, attacking now after what ZA have said and done with the bases. It would only end up making other Zoner factions look at fault.

Have none of you been reading what me and Quiron have said? First off Jack, we are chill about it and not afraid of the "OMG red to houses!". Did you not read my posts at all?

There will be inRP consequences should they find out inRP, no one can dispute that

continue the RP of LN and RH discussions to get them to go against the Zoners (Won't happen, but we will see), and the Zoners find out (inRP of course)

But again, I am willing to see how it plays out inRP

As my above statements say, this isn't about some OORP afraid of what will happen, or afraid that houses will be red. It is the inRP consequences if the Zoner groups find out about it. Which, again as I quoted, I am willing to see how it plays out. So before you go and say "Chill out" and "Look at it as an opportunity for RP", please read my posts and what I said. Because it makes it look like you simply ignored it and are still assuming the Phoenix are out for blood against the ZA. We are not.

Same to you GTB. I already said we are playing along and waiting to see how it plays out inRP. We are giving it time to see what their actions will bring, but we have ceased fire, are remaining neutral, and as Quiron said before your post (Did you even read it?):

There will be peace at last it seems, from our side, good luck for them in their further businesses. I'll try to ignore them completely in and ooRP as well. Don't wanna be dragged into this mess again.

So, let me again, this time in bright white letters, say this to make it clear: Phoenix have ceased fire. We are remaining Neutral and waiting to see how it plays out inRP. We are watching closely because, honestly past actions validate what Thyr mentioned above. BUT, on the flip side, this could be a change for the better. AND WE ARE WILLING TO SEE IT PLAYED OUT. So this pointless "Zoners should not be freaking out and worried and should give them a chance" talk can stop, since we already are doing so. We just want to move on and not keep at this. For ****s sake.

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[GTB]

Same to you GTB. I already said we are playing along and waiting to see how it plays out inRP. We are giving it time to see what their actions will bring, but we have ceased fire, are remaining neutral, and as Quiron said before your post (Did you even read it?):

My last reply wasn't in response to you or Quiron, yes I know you're both willing to play along with ZA for now. I was replying in response to what Thyrzul said.

[Arioch]

Apologies then. Just frustrated is all as everyone seems to be, especially when it seems no one is actually reading what people are saying, or misinterpreting the words posted.

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[Sabru]

It is a dick move, and not a single one of you can deny that.

Absolutely right here.

Wouldn't it be best to buy your time and give ZA the benefit of the doubt, no matter how sceptical you are about them. Stop attacking them and their bases while they've set them to neutral and given them Zoner IFF, along with saying anyone is welcome in the system. If you do that and they keep things that way, then that would be the end of the war and things can go back to normal.

The problem now, and ZA are quite clever doing it. If any other Zoner factions was to attack their bases since they done this "as an act of solving things" and bringing peace back into O74, all it will do is make you look the trouble making culprits (not ZA). So just play along with them for now and see what happens.

Spitballing here, but whats to stop ZA creating fake alts and using them to cause trouble?

Guys, chill about the Zoner-Order leak story.

There have been worse revelations about factions' "unknown" but dirty sides and the only case in which faction diplomacy changed was the OSI-Rheinland incident, in which the OSI leadership accepted the development and - as I am told - actually wanted it that way.

I think the fear of "All Zoners will be red to Houses!" is unfounded. If it was that easy, my faction would be red to everybody and their stepmothers and pets, as well as every neutral faction would be auto-red to all Houses because of some screwup that simply happens sometimes.

Relax.
Look at it as an opportunity for rp.
Even though it is not the cool type of rp... believe me, as IMG I know that. It normally involves numbers followed by 6 to 8 zeros in fees plus some other things that are rather uncomfortable.

But still: Houses will not simply say "Baaaam! U Zonurz <3 terrorists! Baaaaam! FR5 on Zoner ID!" because actually there are sane players and FR5s (if they were filed, which I highly doubt) have to be passed to the Admins. And they would not agree with it, likely, as it would change the lore in more than one way for many many players.

And perhaps one little statement about my "skypelancer" comment: I do not say that I condone it. I just -know- that the discussion about it has already happened. Faction leaders talking about it, checking what the backgrounds are, checking on the context and how to proceed actually makes sense. I just worded it a little controversly because at the time I wrote it, this process was happening, and I found it funny.

I bet, the damage for Zoners will be temporary and it will be possible to cope with the fallout, in case the message is not rejected because of the oorp drama behind the whole thing.

Indeed no-one should panic, but if it is found out inRP that ZA did this they probably would screw any chance of co-operation they had.

i do have to ask,

have you ever been part of an official Zoner faction before? Because Zoner diplomacy is a lot more complex than some people think.

So yes, while not much might amount from ZA going to the house, on the flip side things might be completely screwed up for the official zoner factions. you never know.

I just wonder if it was done to serve ooRP grudges, or was it actually fully thought through.

The way i see it, it could go two ways for the ZA:

1. Nothing happens, and everything stays copasetic.
2. It causes all sorts of trouble for official zoners. if that happens, and if the officials find out inRP, ZA gets hoisted on their own petard.

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[Anaximander]

^I like the FB comment to the petition in your signature.

[GTB]

Spitballing here, but whats to stop ZA creating fake alts and using them to cause trouble?

Nothing really, they could quite easy do that using ALT char. As could anyone else for that matter to force ZA into putting their base turrets back on-line, if they wanted to stir some trouble up.

[SummerMcLovin]

have you ever been part of an official Zoner faction before? Because diplomacy is a lot more complex than some people think.

Yeah, it's called the IMG|. That card can be played both ways, Pavel

Seriously though, the faction has done its fair bit of diplomacy over the years. A lot of people have been doing this for some time whether IMG, another leader, or just another experienced player.

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Kingdom of Bretonia
Colonial Republic
Independent Miners Guild
Ex-Admin

[Highland Laddie]

So, I should whine in every single part of the forum both in and ooRP just to have a good PR? Thanks for the info, noted. Also, I won't start this argue again, we have tried to talk with them a lot of time, you seem missed that point. And no, our first demand wasn't that to decommission their bases.

No, instead there's been whining about how OP bases are, and how they should be nerfed, make easier to kill, or done away with completely, or how only certain "special" Zoners should have caps because other ones don't know how to RP, etc. etc. The oorp forum whining has been on both sides, so you don't have the high ground there. Sorry. At this point, it's better to just drop the finger pointing and move on to what's next.

By the way, you don't have to tell me how to negotiate, thanks. Somewhat that's my job.

As I've said before: from what little I've seen of your group talking to them....I'm not impressed with your diplomacy. The best I've seen is from folks outside stepping in (which doesn't include Tel-Aviv).

[Quiron]

No, instead there's been whining about how OP bases are, and how they should be nerfed, make easier to kill, or done away with completely, or how only certain "special" Zoners should have caps because other ones don't know how to RP, etc. etc. The oorp forum whining has been on both sides, so you don't have the high ground there. Sorry. At this point, it's better to just drop the finger pointing and move on to what's next.

As I've said before: from what little I've seen of your group talking to them....I'm not impressed with your diplomacy. The best I've seen is from folks outside stepping in (which doesn't include Tel-Aviv).

Please quote that where I whined about OP bases or capship restrictions. If you cant find any, please dont mention my posts in your answers about this matter.

Also, as you said you have little information about our talks with them. Then why do you make any statement if your knowledge is limited? Not every diplomatic events go on forums, I think you know that as well.

There is a reason why I dont jump into - for example - Tau related topics and debates, since I have no clue about it what happens there. Only observing.

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