(08-09-2013, 12:41 PM)AshHill07 Wrote: The zoners are fine as a faction, I think the mistake was giving them warships.
to this post specifically, and this thread in general.....
you cant generalize zoners.
the main problem seems to be indie lolcaps.
i swear some people treat the zoner ID as an FL ID, just with caps.
(08-09-2013, 12:35 PM)McTemka Wrote: Zoners are something created by original game. This faction won't be deleted, no matter how hard you beg for it. Yea, they do a lot of stupidity, but I guess the reason of that is not lack of purpose, but lack of restrictions, and someone to watch those restrictions. But this problem is common everywhere.
+1 this post. lack of restrictions and overly accessible caps.
now to spark some QQ:
Zoner indies dont need caps! they could probably use a few restrictions though.....
Ye they need a huge rollback, and not some "exclusive access" to the caps that lore-wise are precisely as nonsensical for official factions as for indies.
That's the biggest shortcoming of the Disco dev team - they never adopted a philosophy where players were given incentives to act like their faction "ought to". That's why we in-game see Zoners totally dwarfing lore-written giants like IC, or an IMG as powerful as all the House mining corporations combined, while we are supposed to pretend it isn't so because lore says otherwise.
It's a bad idea to give people a bunch of toys and suggest temperance, the internet doesn't work like that. People will go to any means to get theirs ahead of others, and some even convince themselves they are right when they say "sure those ships don't make sense, just give them to me and my buddies and take them away from everyone else, and all will be swell". Zoner indies need caps just as little as official faction players do; all it takes it pulling your heads out of your own behinds to see. Official faction ships are just indies with a tag, their farts smells exactly like everyone else's.
Zoners are broken, have been for a long time. I wouldn't really care if it wasn't for the fact that it cannibalizes on other ID's and groups that have more legitimacy lore-wise.
There is sense in restricting zoner capital ships for indies. But then, all non-house navy/military factions should face same fate.
7 Nephilims pewing everything red they see, are OORP as much as 7 Legates/Ranseurs/Jormungands doing same things.
Corsairs, Outcasts, Hessians aren't capable of building such ships in large nubmers, so, if they indeed constructed 7 Battleship type crafts, they wont be risking much them, because, lose of such ship will be great strike for them. Same goes to zoners, which have their Nephilim as super armored and armed mobile FREEPORT in first place. Armor and guns are for making ship as "safe heaven", not as "combat monster".
Still, I think, there is no need to discuss, what will be, if we remove capital ships from indies.
So yeah, if you see zoner player, and you disagree, how he RPing and acting, just make your zoner, and show them real zoner's RP.
Just ask yourself, do you want to remove Zoner faction, or just stop people like ZA and indies with Nephilims?
If you want to remove Zoner faction. Why? A neutral organisation able to trade anywhere. With bases all around Sirius. And a nice escort shipline. Pefect for trading, no?
And... If you want to stop people from being jerks while using caps... Well, Zoner shipline is used only because it can go all around Sirius. Take that away, and what will you have? Nothing. People will just switch to other faction with caps. So, no more ZA and base hunters, but more Valors camping Leeds, more Turtles raiding Texas and more Jormugands camping Omega 7.
(08-10-2013, 01:48 PM)Dino Wrote: So, no more ZA and base hunters, but more Valors camping Leeds, more Turtles raiding Texas and more Jormugands camping Omega 7.
...Which is exactly what we'd want, seeing that that is what they're supposed to be doing.
Yeah but you're forgetting something. With Zoner ID, they engagement is limited to people who trespass Freeports or attack Zoner PoBs. With GRN/LN/RM/Hess ID, all you'd get is "Enemy on radar, engaging" and few seconds later, your trader would crash into dual BS missliles and die. Just think of CCCP|
Honestly, CCCP added more realistic encounters for me than any Zoner cap ever did, faction or not. The mere presence of a Neph puts me in oorp limbo because it just raises so many questions regarding how it is at all possible for them to have such weapons without consequences. It's hard to take seriously or "believe in", whereas a silently engaging hostile NAVY battleship at least makes some sense.
Having Zoners as an uber trading faction with good ship line to boot isn't necessarily a good thing, because it steals players/activity from the House corporations.
Not actually that.
Zoner ID doesnt alowe you to dock on majority of bases in house space on large ships. Such trading can be...sanctionable. Plus, Zoner ID doesn't give you immunity for a pirating. Ship, with 3600 cargo hold, can be successfully combined with FL ID, which can go indeed, nearly everywhere.