They aren't being taken out of context. Aligning them as I have in the quote is parallel to how you chose to write it.
I digress.
I can understand how you see them, but the lore is built by RP. Otherwise, everyone would still be playing vanilla factions, and what fun would that be? You need lore as a basis for RP. You need RP to develop your lore.
This character started during the time when we had toledo, and later become a lone - isolated wolf that cares only for those who care for himself, his fighting days are over - but he remains a wolf none the less, given that omicrons can spawn more dangerious things than cruisers or nommie npcs. The possibility of threat alone gives the character a reason to live in this vessel
Writing the "discovery zoner lore" should be handled by the official factions, with a mutual understanding with the others, it is not to be over-taken due to a forum "revolution" that is false in its nature, and completely against the wishes of the zoners.
In other words, don't strip our stuff, these are the things that ( from a sample of one atleast ) keeps us here.
If this change is only due to Zoner lore,then why is the restriction on transports put in the first place?It was not there before,that was the first step in diminshing the whales population.And now adding transports which are just going to be not used and will collect dust just like the whales.
See the point?The addition of transports doesnt mean anything but another of the ships that will go down the line as a useless addition.And if you say that they need a well defended transport just because of the wild nature of the Omicrons and for their safety,then it contradicts the same ground on which you are removing the Juggernaut and the Aquillon,the reason that they are not useful since Zoners dont have any big threats.
All that I personally am asking is that,what will these new models do to improve the activity of the trading that the Zoners do now?And what will it do to improve the overall Zoner activity,be it indy or faction?Can anyone answer these questions?
EDIT:As far as I have followed each post and said all over this thread,the devs dont care about ID changes,they do ship modifications,remove them and just dont know what might happen after that.Its the admins job as I got reply from some,and in turn the admins havent done anything in here excpet Hawk,who sold his Zoner Juggy to me yesterday and expresses his concern of removing a 5 year old ship.
The proliferation of capital ships by all factions in a mere 20 years is certainly not consistent vanilla production capacities by an order of magnitude (or more). However, the Discovery mod was Igiss' personal vision; it was his to do with what he wanted, and by playing here we've all chosen to accept that. However, we do now recognise that his particular style of storytelling did not provide comprehensive coverage for each faction, or consideration of less tangible elements of lore which did not translate directly to gameplay features. However, one can simply not just "fix everything" overnight, because of the sheer inertia of the mod, and the differences in opinions about how to "fix" the mod.
In other words, while the Zoner players may feel that their wings are being clipped, I would hypothesise that in an ideal situation, a similar demilitarisation would happen across the board. However, there is a saying about the nail that sticks out the most being the first to get the hammer...*
Personally, I would be in favour of having all Battleships only accessible by some regulated system (comparable to a SRP, but perhaps not necessarily quite as detailed). Regardless, I recognise that such a system is simply unfeasible to execute at this point in time.
Aside; it's important to note that IDs are the realm of the Administrators, not the Developers. Yes, there is overlap between the Devs and the Admins, but the two groups are not the same.
*I.E. The Zoners having access to "capital ships" was evidently judged to be one of the worse offenders in this scenario. This doesn't even take into account that the Zoner players in the past haven't been able to agree on what Zoner lore should be, if you ignore the fact they've been given bad cues by previous iterations of the mod.
Addendum: While some factions have become over-inflated, the Zoners are one of the rare instances of current faction lore being completely contradictory to canonical vanilla lore.
(02-23-2014, 02:13 PM)Omega472 Wrote: They aren't being taken out of context. Aligning them as I have in the quote is parallel to how you chose to write it.
I digress.
I can understand how you see them, but the lore is built by RP. Otherwise, everyone would still be playing vanilla factions, and what fun would that be? You need lore as a basis for RP. You need RP to develop your lore.
Indeed, the lore is built by RP, and for quite some years Zoner players built their RP based on the ships in question. It's not a lore element which was implemented half-year ago, but established by players for quite some years. And now it will be removed.
As I wrote before, if we really want to find our way back to the logical lore, I hope other factions will be revised as well. Just to be fair.
Changing the Ships class to another Transport Class, really doesn't help. It will be ultimately the most less used Zoner ship again.
We already have restriction on ID in house spaces, merely pointing the goal of whale to transport mostly within Omicrons. Having a BattleTransport doesn't add anything rather, as stated above, will gather dust.
Well, In fact, Having Aquillons and Nephilims changed is rather not "understandable".
Every blow that came across we had to handle, and adapt, some things however are not that easy. You simply can't strip something that in its nature holds the faction, I mean - sure its only a battleship, but even those who don't fly it that often understand that its part of us, and a big part. This ain't the normal nerf/buff on the little things, you are asking us to accept a downfall that will probably kill us all in terms of activity and joy. Having said that, without being "rude" - Why don't you pick on the red hessians instead, why is it acceptable to deminish zoners at every chance they get, masqurading it with false evidence of "lack of lore, lolwuts, etc" - when it truth, there are better candidates. I'd like to know why it is not reasonable for zoners, who pretty much hold the entire BW/Edge world in their pockets , having battleships. And why on earth do you think it is possible for a group of miners to have a battleship? - Because of A.B.C.D - Im sure the hessies can bring a perfectly reasonable explaination of them having caps, but you don't give us the chance to present our explaination because the dev team continues to change things and that sends us to square ONE all over again.
Ever since the exodus from Sol and the colonization of Sirius, people and factions have been outcasted, discriminated against, and even expelled from the houses of Sirius. These men and women were strong, hardy people who took it to themselves to flee from the governments of the past. These people were not afraid of the ever expanding universe, not afraid of exploring the unknown, and definitely not afraid of what awaited them, or what came after. These men are and were the Zoners.
The Zoners were never a combined group, just thousands of individuals who fled from the corruption of the House systems. However these men and women slowly came together for protection and co-operation. They combined with like-minded people, people who yearn for freedom and a life with no boundaries. They came together in order to meet their most basic needs as well, as to sustain their new way of life. They came together for protection. These people hated the rule of law imposed on them by the Houses of Sirius and would do anything to keep that oppression from entering their new homes. This was not an easy task.
The Zoners began their new organizations with the realization that they were powerless. They realized that money is power, money is control, money means protection. This led to the creation of the famed Zoner Whale, a machine that would make them rich. The Zoners explored to find new areas, new systems, new wealth. They found opportunities such as the Corsairs with their artifacts and the Iridium in Delta. The Zoners worked together to build networks of freeports in order to trade these new resources with the rest of Sirius, and what did they want in turn? Money. The Zoners used their vast network of trade to create a diplomatic web that they knew would protect them, at least for a little while. They knew that as they became stronger, bigger, wealthier, that people would covet their wealth, covet their unparalleled freedom. The Zoners knew that these same people would mass together, whether because of jealously or for power, and try to take it from them by any means necessary.
The Zoners were then thrust into conflict on that fateful day when Freeport 7 was destroyed by the Nomads, sending all of Sirius into a war for their lives. This was the Zoners awakening. The Zoners began to use their vast sums of wealth accumulated over hundreds of years to build a fleet comparable to the strongest of the houses. Even with the diplomatic web intact, the Zoners knew that a day would come when it would all come crashing down, and they decided to be ready for that day. The Zoners built Livadia shipyard and forged an alliance with the Order.
This alone to any rational thinking person can be a good start to explain why we need it. Its not perfect, but you know, Its good enough for now.
2nd edit : its NOT perfect, it contradicts a few things, but thats a easy attempt to establish a zoner-disco lore, however faulty it is, it is as valid as any other attempt to make sense of things.
![[Image: Pg4nogd.png]](http://i.imgur.com/Pg4nogd.png)
![[Image: QDpyM.png]](http://i.imgur.com/QDpyM.png)
![[Image: 33267_s.gif]](http://signavatar.com/33267_s.gif)
