(02-25-2014, 12:20 PM)Divine Wrote: Actually, yes. Works fine.
//Edit: As for the fact that Zoners way of defence is diplomacy... If you can't fend off an enemy on your own, which is very likely for the Zoners against any enemy, they should utilize their diplomatic skills to find someone defending them.
League of Nations
League of Nations
League of Nations
(02-25-2014, 12:22 PM)RichardNW Wrote: ...
Pics or it didn't happen.
Outcasts.
(02-25-2014, 12:24 PM)Corigan Wrote: ...
Oh yes! Because when diplomacy breaks down I'm sure battleships won't be needed!
...
But if that fails - you know.
And you think you could defeat the Nomads, or any other enemy of larger scale for that reason, exactly how?
I never said defeat. I said defend. Those are very different. One is intended to back them off, the other is intended to destroy them
I'm sorry, i just had a quick view on the first paragraph and it really looks like im being charged for breaking a zoner rp. I must tell you I didnt know that, I must have shot countless people without rp, and i also hugged manhattan while at it, I also shot zoners because I didnt like them. Right.
What jinx was trying to say on that qoute, was, partially, me and trog were the only ones who stood up against the anti-zoner movement at the time. FR5 the za group would have taken effect if only the things they did were wrong in a zoner perspective, but they weren't. Those individuals who got sanctioned for 1.3 has nothing to do with the ZA, and I should also remind you that people hi-jacked the tag for that specific role, I think theres still the thread hawk made about that. So, you were all once against me when I had done the best I could to defend the ships that now are being taken away from us, and yet again Im still the one who gets the blame? So nice of you to finaly stand up at the last minute.
Alright, then in short explain how a bunch of ragtag inhabitants that happen to run -one- shipyard at the edge of known space, surrounded by groups that'll unlikely allow another power to rise, will be able to build, maintain, crew and field a fleet of capital class warships, how personnel is trained, what the overall military structure is, how (and where, given the case those ships are placed into action on the other side of Sirius, and not just right next to O74) they repair said fleet.
And more as that, explain how such a fleet will be able to -defend- your Freeports from the Nomads, as they seem to be your major concern.
From what I could gather from the past,... if the Nomads want to bomb one of your Freeports, you can't stop that from happening. They destroyed Toledo and turned it into burning rock, for gods sake. Fighting against the Core and the Order fleets at that moment.
Core.
Order.
And now you want to tell me your few selected capital class warships will be a proper defence against the Nomads? They're not more as metal not turned into scrap, yet.
Not to speak about how Zoners issues with any other enemy turned out for Zoners favour. There's been clashes with the Outcasts. The Corsairs handed your back to you, as did the Coalition. Every single time the Zoners lost.
-Any- capital class warship of a Nephilims size the Zoners field will not make any of said factions/groups like you more. On the contrary, you're not supposed to field any kind of military-state fleet - in the eyes of the groups surrounding you. And those have the means to stop you from doing so already.
//Edit: Also not denying Zoners here the use of research-type cruiser-class vessels. That's one capital class shiptype for a very specific role which should not be on par with any of the other cruisers around.
(02-25-2014, 12:37 PM)Divine Wrote: Alright, then in short explain how a bunch of ragtag inhabitants that happen to run -one- shipyard at the edge of known space, surrounded by groups that'll unlikely allow another power to rise, will be able to build, maintain, crew and field a fleet of capital class warships, how personnel is trained, what the overall military structure is, how (and where, given the case those ships are placed into action on the other side of Sirius, and not just right next to O74) they repair said fleet.
And more as that, explain how such a fleet will be able to -defend- your Freeports from the Nomads, as they seem to be your major concern.
From what I could gather from the past,... if the Nomads want to bomb one of your Freeports, you can't stop that from happening. They destroyed Toledo and turned it into burning rock, for gods sake. Fighting against the Core and the Order fleets at that moment.
Core.
Order.
And now you want to tell me your few selected capital class warships will be a proper defence against the Nomads? They're not more as metal not turned into scrap, yet.
Not to speak about how Zoners issues with any other enemy turned out for Zoners favour. There's been clashes with the Outcasts. The Corsairs handed your back to you, as did the Coalition.
-Any- capital class warship of a Nephilims size the Zoners field will not make any of said factions/groups like you more. On the contrary, you're not supposed to field any kind of military-state fleet - in the eyes of the groups surrounding you. And those have the means to stop you from doing so already.
Okay. by that logic what are outcast's doing with Battleships, crusers, and gunboats. They appear to be worse off that zoners. Zoners are traders, can get materials from most places. But outcasts are at war with the houses and other groups of criminals. It's more logical to assume zoners could build battleships than outcasts. Zoners have a planet too, ya know.
(02-25-2014, 12:37 PM)Divine Wrote: Alright, then in short explain how a bunch of ragtag inhabitants that happen to run -one- shipyard at the edge of known space, surrounded by groups that'll unlikely allow another power to rise, will be able to build, maintain, crew and field a fleet of capital class warships, how personnel is trained, what the overall military structure is, how (and where, given the case those ships are placed into action on the other side of Sirius, and not just right next to O74) they repair said fleet.
And more as that, explain how such a fleet will be able to -defend- your Freeports from the Nomads, as they seem to be your major concern.
From what I could gather from the past,... if the Nomads want to bomb one of your Freeports, you can't stop that from happening. They destroyed Toledo and turned it into burning rock, for gods sake. Fighting against the Core and the Order fleets at that moment.
Core.
Order.
And now you want to tell me your few selected capital class warships will be a proper defence against the Nomads? They're not more as metal not turned into scrap, yet.
Not to speak about how Zoners issues with any other enemy turned out for Zoners favour. There's been clashes with the Outcasts. The Corsairs handed your back to you, as did the Coalition.
-Any- capital class warship of a Nephilims size the Zoners field will not make any of said factions/groups like you more. On the contrary, you're not supposed to field any kind of military-state fleet - in the eyes of the groups surrounding you. And those have the means to stop you from doing so already.
Your argument is summed up as: "You cannot stop the Nomads, so why are you trying?"
(02-25-2014, 12:37 PM)Divine Wrote: Alright, then in short explain how a bunch of ragtag inhabitants that happen to run -one- shipyard at the edge of known space, surrounded by groups that'll unlikely allow another power to rise, will be able to build, maintain, crew and field a fleet of capital class warships, how personnel is trained, what the overall military structure is, how (and where, given the case those ships are placed into action on the other side of Sirius, and not just right next to O74) they repair said fleet.
And more as that, explain how such a fleet will be able to -defend- your Freeports from the Nomads, as they seem to be your major concern.
From what I could gather from the past,... if the Nomads want to bomb one of your Freeports, you can't stop that from happening. They destroyed Toledo and turned it into burning rock, for gods sake. Fighting against the Core and the Order fleets at that moment.
Core.
Order.
And now you want to tell me your few selected capital class warships will be a proper defence against the Nomads? They're not more as metal not turned into scrap, yet.
Not to speak about how Zoners issues with any other enemy turned out for Zoners favour. There's been clashes with the Outcasts. The Corsairs handed your back to you, as did the Coalition.
-Any- capital class warship of a Nephilims size the Zoners field will not make any of said factions/groups like you more. On the contrary, you're not supposed to field any kind of military-state fleet - in the eyes of the groups surrounding you. And those have the means to stop you from doing so already.
Your argument is summed up as: "You cannot stop the Nomads, so why are you trying?"
Exactly. Warships are to fight them off, not to stop an attack.
Outcasts
- richer than you
- technological more advanced
- well trained soldiers, as every life is sacred and every loss hurts
- capital class warships usually operate close to reinforcements and homeworlds
- construction on one of the two shipyards (not counting Corsica here) is usually a join effort between those syndicates/organizations within Nacion that can effort such an endeavour
- got a good share of actual "allies" and "confidants" to work with, people that're actually able to provide technological research and support, as well as soldiers. They also control their very own part of space.
- are on a semi-house state that was ruled over decades per one group, before that there's been a Council... it always was -one united nation- despite all its internal differences
//Edit:
(02-25-2014, 12:43 PM)Corigan Wrote: ...
Okay. by that logic what are outcast's doing with Battleships, crusers, and gunboats. They appear to be worse off that zoners. Zoners are traders, can get materials from most places. But outcasts are at war with the houses and other groups of criminals. It's more logical to assume zoners could build battleships than outcasts. Zoners have a planet too, ya know.
By that logic, you could question the Hessian capital line, the Order as a whole, the Core surely as well, Corsairs for sure, lets talk about the Coalition.
The difference is, they -can- do so, as they've started with military grade production centuries ago, they all have an industry centered around the production and maintenance of military gear.
The Zoners missed that chance over several decades back. And now, you sure as hell can't just secretly build a whole fleet of warships outclassing in shipsize every other around, without the groups that surround you stopping you from doing so.
(02-25-2014, 12:50 PM)Divine Wrote: Outcasts
- richer than you
- technological more advanced
- well trained soldiers, as every life is sacred and every loss hurts
- capital class warships usually operate close to reinforcements and homeworlds
- construction on one of the two shipyards (not counting Corsica here) is usually a join effort between those syndicates/organizations within Nacion that can effort such an endeavour
- got a good share of actual "allies" and "confidants" to work with, people that're actually able to provide technological research and support, as well as soldiers. They also control their very own part of space.
- are on a semi-house state that was ruled over decades per one group, before that there's been a Council... it always was -one united nation- despite all its internal differences
Zoners
- a vast Sirius-Wide collective
- technologically advanced
- well trained soldiers, as every life is sacred and every loss hurts
- capital class warships usually operate close to freeports and our homeworld
- construction on one shipyard is usually a join effort between those organizations within the Zoners that can afford such an endeavour
- got a good share of actual "allies" and "confidants" to work with, people that're actually able to provide technological research and support, as well as soldiers. They also control their very own part of space.
- are on a sirius-wide ideal that was ruled over decades under the idea of the free man, but it always was -one united collective- despite all its internal differences.
(02-25-2014, 12:50 PM)Divine Wrote: ...
The difference is, they -can- do so, as they've started with military grade production centuries ago, they all have an industry centered around the production and maintenance of military gear.
The Zoners missed that chance over several decades back. And now, you sure as hell can't just secretly build a whole fleet of warships outclassing in shipsize every other around, without the groups that surround you stopping you from doing so.
Sectret production of Zoner capital class warships is highly doubtful, especially when it comes to fielding a smaller fleet of those then. Production will not go unnoticed, and those factions around you, down at O74 mainly the Corsairs, but surely the Hessians too, would not let you just roll with this.
Open, publically known production is even more unlikely.
So before you even could switch the one shipyard you got there to a full military-grade production line-out, others would've stopped you from doing so.
Because they've been there first, and they sure won't share their part of the cake.
Ofc Zoner developments and research is supported, maybe even funded by them, and sure they'll likely later buy the technology Zoner scientiests created. But they'll all sure prevent Zoners from rising to an actual military power that confronts them on their own territory.
The initial idea of the Nephilim being a rare, well hidden, secret type of backup-colony-ship was a good one inRP. But as everyone could buy such a ship, this RP never could at any point be balanced ingame actually.
Same for the Carrier, which needs even more maintenance as a dreadnought-class.
---
So in short. By the factions lore, Zoners missed their chances long ago and given todays chain of events, it's highly unlikely that Zoners will ever be able to establish a military-industry on their own, for their own.
//Edit:
(02-25-2014, 01:00 PM)RichardNW Wrote: ...
- are on a sirius-wide ideal that was ruled over decades under the idea of the free man, but it always was -one united collective- despite all its internal differences.
Here's your issue. That heavily contradics Zoner-lore so far.
Everytime you people want to create something like a "united-Zoner-front" you stomp it out of nowhere, with all the high-grade-gear and your warships. For the background, you write some fancy text and demand everyone to accept this as a given canon.
Instead, you should've started with this as a plain RP-idea, collecting those Zoners around you supporting you, doing cross-Freeport-RP (as all of them are run under their own administration) and slowly building towards what you wanted right from the first day.
All the time you spent trying with your instant-power and imaginary made-up background, and all the complaining on the forums when you again ran against a wall, you could and should have used to actually build the background ingame and on forums.
