Actually, Columbus had very little in terms of battle equipment. It was Cortez that first went to America, and his expedition was concentrated on comquest (thus - conquistadors).
Also I like what Sheaim said, although I'm not sure it applies since I don't think the devs are actually considering what anyone else is saying.
I'd like the entire Zoner BS line to be SRP based, so that they're available, but not freely, then give them a load of cool transports. I wouldn't suggest giving official factions control over any of that though. Official factions tend to not play nice with people, no matter how well intentioned they first come across. You don't need to trust me on that one..
(02-25-2014, 04:37 PM)Divine Wrote: This discussion is pointless. I'd suggest everyone takes a step back for a few days and we speak end of the week about this again.
Can't lock the thread though. Why? I definitely should be allowed to. Lets make a poll.
All these Zoner threads are nothing but pointless child Q.Q. God forbid the new people coming to this website in the past few days, and just seeing BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW splashed over the forums.
This has to stop. The Dev judgment is one backed by the people who have also been affected by Zoner cap users. I myself would like to see Zoner caps be SRP'd, however I am find with Jinx's solution.
And over the past few days there's been some notable quotes, I think this may be one of the best so far:
(02-25-2014, 04:27 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: I would repeat what I said earlier....if a Zoner group's RP is so fragile that losing a BS makes their existence worthless....is such a group even worth having around?
It's not that we couldn't RP without battleships. OSI doesn't have battleships. The problem is a ripple effect.
We have to retcon completely out of existance everything to do with those ships or rewrite it from the ground up. I wrote 20,000 words and I would not even touch that project with a million foot pole. So it would be erased.
So if you erase a piece of RP that has a battleship in it. Then you erase the pieces that refer to that or are involved in that, and ten you erase the connected ones to that suddenly you have very little RP at all.
See the problem?
(02-25-2014, 06:11 PM)EisenSeele Wrote: If anything, anything even resembling a zoner "military" should be something close to what the GMG has.
I agree that there is no Zoner military. But the GMG inRP destroyed a huge chunk of the Rheinland military utterly.
(02-25-2014, 07:23 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: Well heck, then while we're at it, I want my own extensive capship line for Gateway Shipping, because that would be fun for me and mine, wouldn't it? While we're at it, let's get special caps for GMG, Gaians, Cryer, etc...
Let's bring it into perspective.
You as Gateway are going to have every transport you use turned into gunboats. This is to bring you more into line with "Insert thing here" now resolve that with your roleplay. Also your transports never existed.
That's what we are dealing with here.
(02-25-2014, 07:37 PM)LordVipex Wrote:
(02-25-2014, 06:51 PM)RedEclipse Wrote: Ruin their RP, thus ruin their fun and Zoner activity in general.
As said before, if the Zoners need battleships to have fun and be active, then I'd say that there is a much different, much bigger problem with the Zoner gameplay in general.
Furthermore, think about the following: If losing the ship is so devastating to your RP, and the ship itself has such a crucial role in it - aswell as the background and origin of it thought through - then you can SRP the Nephilim.
I slowly start to get the feeling that certain people here complain that they suddenly have to put effort for their Nephilim to acquire it and maintain it instead of powertrading billions and buying it from the shipyard.
If the RP of some nephilim-owners here is half as good as they claim it to be, then getting the Nephilim through an SRP should be one of the easiest tasks for you.
There are two leviathans. Erasing all of our ships and then forcing us to get them back in the roulette wheel of SRP? Not very appealing.
(02-25-2014, 07:58 PM)Sheaim Wrote: Actually, Columbus had very little in terms of battle equipment. It was Cortez that first went to America, and his expedition was concentrated on comquest (thus - conquistadors).
in point of fact, it was Eirick the Red who went to america first, and he took with him a boatload of fierce-some vikings, after crossing the north atlantic in a 10m open boat. This wasn't a man inclined to hand around cucumber sandwiches and ferrero roche. in fact, by all accounts he was a bit of a see you next tuesday, as you might expect of someone who'd driven two successful colonisation missions into iceland (which is green) and Greenland (which is covered in ice). His return from the americas with grapes - an unusual delicacy in the northern europe of the time - prompted him to call the lands 'Vin-Land'. however, as he had lied about greenland being green, no one was interested in colonising the new land and the project was abandoned.
my point here is that the zoners have effectively done the same thing. they have managed to build a station out of an asteroid in omega 41, maintain it under the twin onslaughts of corsair predations and radiation AND AT THE SAME TIME build technically challenging space stations and maintain good relations with the corsairs' enemies the outcasts, the bounty hunters guild, liberty, etc etc etc. zoners are in fact, space-vikings. If you've seen these guys play ice-hockey, you'll know that it's not a good idea to mess with angry vikings.
I really really rue the day that gallia became the sixth house. How perfect would it have been, and easy to write, that the zoners had been secretly stockpiling masses and masses of uberpowerful caps, and were ready to claim their empire - the empire of sirius. No more 'neutrality' for Zoners, but Ascendency. instead of replacing the leaders with alien-driven mommets, they called them all together for a conference and assassinated them. uncertain of who to blame, the navies began several border-skirmishes, allowing pirates almost free reign. Strapped for resources, the respective navies caled for the zoners to help them police their core systems, and the zoner empire was born.
or perhaps they're waiting for the aftermath of the gallia-sirius war, and are poised to crush the victors?
Essentially, retconning means "we made a mistake so catastrophically huge that this is the only alternative".
zoners' manufacturing cannot support hundreds of caps? well, nor can the bhg then. or the hessians, rogues, mollies, hackers, blood dragons, in fact, any faction that doesnt claim a planet. for parity, retconn those ships as well, and regain a measure of respectability - or else we'll stop wanting to follow your suggestions, like eirick the red discovered when he tried to get them to go to vinland. they pointed out that if iceland was green and greenland was ice, then vinland would be a desert. if caps are transports.... but only for some. nerf the stats, not delete the ships
Not sure if coin was being sarcastic or not (probably).
But allowing Zoners to somehow become a massive military might (who appears weak inrp) within 20 years might be a mistake that has to be accepted, just as the oversaturation of systems in disco - there's always a way to fit that into the lore. You might be able to revert everything with a fresh, better designed map and better more logically balanced factions and trade routes, alongside server wipe, but since server wipe is not going to happen, then for the same reasons this essentially "zoner wipe" should not happen as well.
edit: More precisely, if I one day find my aquilon suddenly turned into an oversized 5ker it's gonna be no different than from the char file being corrupted due to some station that doesn't exist anymore (which is one of the reasons they aren't planning on reducing systems)
wasn't being sarcastic, I was trying to point out that the zoners are a seriously under-utilised commodity who are integral to the lore. FP7 destroyed, wide ranging explorers of sirius who know that 'space is dangerous' and allow almost anyone sanctuary in their bases. I wouldn't be surprised if the zoners, with their enlightened attitudes to conflict, turn out to be the DK.
Space is plenty dangerous enough as it is. War and conquest are a symptom of masculine juvenilia. the zoners being conmingled with the DK mean that they don't have this mindset, but one of peaceful exploration. The impressive zoi of the zoners means that the DK can silently observe humanity - who easily trounced their nomad guard dogs. The DK may yet enslave the human race and use us as mercenaries in their conquest of other galaxies... provided that they willingly accept a nomad parasite and turn Wilde.
i posted elsewhere that the apes (not monkeys!) from primus may have been zoners attempting to use massive doses of cardamine to rid themselves of the nomad parasites disturbed their DNA so badly that they now resemble chimps (whose DNA is 99.9% identical to ours).
the zoners could have a civil war, and in the aftermath completely fragment, tying themselves to one base, governed by an elected council, who take it in turns to be the 'Caliphate' or spokesman (this is how malaysia is governed). this would effectively double the number of factions on disco, and at the same time give zoners one voice, so no one can repeatedly ask various zoner factions for tech until they get the answer they want.
i could go on with various ways to integrate the 'after-thought' factions, but its a bit off-topic. i just think that the faction could be governed better, and utilised better as an integral part of the lore, rather than the 'the station that blows up has to be neutral or else they will escalate the story before trent has learned how to undock from manhatten'
![[Image: PFjFVMW.png]](https://i.imgur.com/PFjFVMW.png)
