Lythrilux, you are whining about Zoner threads, but created another one? What Irony.
This changes would affect on Phoenix/OSI/TAZ IDs too, as these IDs are based on Zoner ID.
Furthermore, that limitation nohow affect on zoner drama, but satisfies of Q_Q'ers. Since when Zoner caps messed around house space? Since when it was drama? ORI? Cool story, but it was years ago. Other than that, its fun to shoot big target.
So latest dramas were mainly in Omicrons and Sigmas/Omegas. I cant see how your suggestion would fix "The end of zonerzonerzoner ".
(05-31-2014, 10:04 AM)RedEclipse Wrote: Lythrilux, you are whining about Zoner threads, but created another one? What Irony.
I find it quite hilarious that you're a leader of one of the Zoner official factions and are not doing anything to help end/stem the constant cycles of Zoner drama.
(05-31-2014, 10:04 AM)RedEclipse Wrote: This changes would affect on Phoenix/OSI/TAZ IDs too, as these IDs are based on Zoner ID.
Did you even read the OP? I said official factions would be exempt from these changes to give them an edge over indies.
(05-31-2014, 10:04 AM)RedEclipse Wrote: Furthermore, that limitation nohow affect on zoner drama, but satisfies of Q_Q'ers. Since when Zoner caps messed around house space? Since when it was drama? ORI? Cool story, but it was years ago. Other than that, its fun to shoot big target.
Zoner drama = Zoners in house space. Which is also complete ooRP for their RP. Surely you would know this?
It's fun to shoot Zoner caps that are acting complete ooRPly you say? Are you no better than Tel?
As I told him: what kind of standards are we trying to set here?
(05-31-2014, 10:04 AM)RedEclipse Wrote: So latest dramas were mainly in Omicrons and Sigmas/Omegas. I cant see how your suggestion would fix "The end of zonerzonerzoner ".
Perhaps, stop making Zoner threads too?
The majority of Zoners should stay in the Omicrons. That's their RP after all. This suggestion is meant to curb the amount of 'house Zoners'.
Sure, it won't stop the drama happening there, but sadly the only real solution to stopping the drama there has been disagreed on by the devs/admins.
If you have any suggestions as to how to fix the drama there, I'm all ears.
Order and Core ID got changed to prevent capital ships wondering in house space for a reason. Why are Zoners extempt from this? Are their neutrality reaching even into dev/admin decisions and makes them untouchables?
New and improved anti-zonerzonerzoner Zoner ID Wrote:Pilot carrying this quasi-lawful ID is a Zoner, who:
- Can attack any ship in self-defense, to protect another Zoner ship, or in defense of Zoner bases.
- Cannot bring cruisers, carriers or battleships into house space.
- Cannot dock transports with more than 3,600 cargo within any House, except on GMG, IMG or Zoner bases.
- Cannot participate in unlawful actions except as described above.
Of course, this ID would not apply in the same way to Zoner officials.
Result:
No more Zoner powertraders dancing around in house space
No more Zoner capitals flying into house space
More logical RP sense, less lolwutty caps in house space and less Zoner powertraders. Hopefully this means we will have more people using the ID for the sake of RP, rather than caps or trading
More reason to join a Zoner official faction.
-snip-
Edits:
Changed the places Zoner caps can't go from systems containing a jump gate to just house space.
While at it, let's implement every single one of your excellent ideas, then rename the mod to Lythrilux's Discovery Freelancer 4.87. After that, you can busy yourself playing with the NPCs, because no one else will probably play this mod anymore.
On a more serious note, do you happen to have any good ideas?
Restrictions such as this are killing this community (take a good look on the Order activity levels for example - a seriously restricted ID), and here you are, opting for yet another one.
P.S.:
(05-31-2014, 10:50 AM)Lythrilux Wrote:
(05-31-2014, 10:04 AM)RedEclipse Wrote: This changes would affect on Phoenix/OSI/TAZ IDs too, as these IDs are based on Zoner ID.
Did you even read the OP? I said official factions would be exempt from these changes to give them an edge over indies.
And why do you support the official factions so much, exactly? I for one prefer not to be restricted by people with obtuse ideas such as yourself.
You preach about role play. Well then, propose a RP scenario instead, where a Zoner capital ship in House space without a specific invitation is automatically considered hostile (or unlawful) and thus a combat target.
I for one am against more and more restrictions, when all you need to fix this whole charade is to treat their capital ships (official factions included) as combat targets as long as they don't have some form of a Role Play invitation (and escort) in a certain house system.
New and improved anti-zonerzonerzoner Zoner ID Wrote:Pilot carrying this quasi-lawful ID is a Zoner, who:
- Can attack any ship in self-defense, to protect another Zoner ship, or in defense of Zoner bases.
- Cannot bring cruisers, carriers or battleships into house space.
- Cannot dock transports with more than 3,600 cargo within any House, except on GMG, IMG or Zoner bases.
- Cannot participate in unlawful actions except as described above.
Of course, this ID would not apply in the same way to Zoner officials.
Result:
No more Zoner powertraders dancing around in house space
No more Zoner capitals flying into house space
More logical RP sense, less lolwutty caps in house space and less Zoner powertraders. Hopefully this means we will have more people using the ID for the sake of RP, rather than caps or trading
More reason to join a Zoner official faction.
-snip-
Edits:
Changed the places Zoner caps can't go from systems containing a jump gate to just house space.
While at it, let's implement every single one of your excellent ideas, then rename the mod to Lythrilux's Discovery Freelancer 4.87. After that, you can busy yourself playing with the NPCs, because no one else will probably play this mod anymore.
On a more serious note, do you happen to have any good ideas?
Restrictions such as this are killing this community (take a good look on the Order activity levels for example - a seriously restricted ID), and here you are, opting for yet another one.
I am happy to disprove you to say that Order indy activity is very good, and Order| activity is hindered by the fact that many , like me(yes, I am Order|) are on vacation, and cant log.
plus, Order activity jas nothing to do with restrictions , coz:
Order pirm. fleet ID has no restrictions on cap ZoI
Order| restricts Caps bigger than gunboats to higher ranks.
Edit:and yeah, I dont see why Nephilims should roam about in NY orbit. this is an RP server. I dont see how it is Irp for colony ships to roam in House space, almost as Illogical as Orillion being infested (sorry, too much of vanilla)
New and improved anti-zonerzonerzoner Zoner ID Wrote:Pilot carrying this quasi-lawful ID is a Zoner, who:
- Can attack any ship in self-defense, to protect another Zoner ship, or in defense of Zoner bases.
- Cannot bring cruisers, carriers or battleships into house space.
- Cannot dock transports with more than 3,600 cargo within any House, except on GMG, IMG or Zoner bases.
- Cannot participate in unlawful actions except as described above.
Of course, this ID would not apply in the same way to Zoner officials.
Result:
No more Zoner powertraders dancing around in house space
No more Zoner capitals flying into house space
More logical RP sense, less lolwutty caps in house space and less Zoner powertraders. Hopefully this means we will have more people using the ID for the sake of RP, rather than caps or trading
More reason to join a Zoner official faction.
-snip-
Edits:
Changed the places Zoner caps can't go from systems containing a jump gate to just house space.
While at it, let's implement every single one of your excellent ideas, then rename the mod to Lythrilux's Discovery Freelancer 4.87. After that, you can busy yourself playing with the NPCs, because no one else will probably play this mod anymore.
On a more serious note, do you happen to have any good ideas?
Restrictions such as this are killing this community (take a good look on the Order activity levels for example - a seriously restricted ID), and here you are, opting for yet another one.
I am happy to disprove you to say that Order indy activity is very good, and Order| activity is hindered by the fact that many , like me(yes, I am Order|) are on vacation, and cant log.
plus, Order activity jas nothing to do with restrictions , coz:
Order pirm. fleet ID has no restrictions on cap ZoI
Order| restricts Caps bigger than gunboats to higher ranks.
Edit:and yeah, I dont see why Nephilims should roam about in NY orbit. this is an RP server. I dont see how it is Irp for colony ships to roam in House space, almost as Illogical as Orillion being infested (sorry, too much of vanilla)
You log roughly twice a year. That pretty much sums it up?
(05-31-2014, 10:50 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: I find it quite hilarious that you're a leader of one of the Zoner official factions and are not doing anything to help end/stem the constant cycles of Zoner drama.
What ******* zoner drama? A couple lolwut players going with their caps into lolberty is hardly any drama.
You talk about official factions, but you have no idea what is a zoner, and also 99% of the people that posted here has no idea what it is to be a zoner. The only zoner drama I see is caused by these constant zoner threads being created.
Disclaimer: I have not read all 11 pages of this thread, as it's the wee hours of the morning and I'm too tired right now. All I'm taking into account is the OP.
I really, really doubt Lyth has anything but selfish intentions in mind. I think another hit the nail on the head when they suggested he's just doing this to make it easier for his JM to pirate.
Clues:
(05-30-2014, 09:57 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: - Cannot bring cruisers, carriers or battleships into house space.
This is a terrible idea. Yes, there are reasons a Zoner might want/need to enter house space with his capital ship - For example, to travel between the Omegas and Taus. Just because House laws do not allow unescorted foreign capital ships in their space does not mean it should be an ID violation to do so.
(05-30-2014, 09:57 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: Of course, this ID would not apply in the same way to Zoner officials.
Knowing full well that our officials do nothing and are therefore not a threat to him. (I am sorry to lump Phoenix into this category, as I do not know them nearly as well as OSI and TAZ, but I haven't seen any evidence otherwise)
(05-30-2014, 09:57 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: Result:
No more Zoner powertraders dancing around in house space
( How is this a new benefit? Zoner traders already had that cargo limit docking restriction. )
No more Zoner capitals flying into house space
( Again, undesirable side effects )
More logical RP sense, less lolwutty caps in house space and less Zoner powertraders. Hopefully this means we will have more people using the ID for the sake of RP, rather than caps or trading
( ... did you really just restate the first two points as a third point? )
More reason to join a Zoner official faction.
( Undesirable. They don't deserve it. )
Finally, and most importantly, this will NOT be "the end of ZonerZonerZoner" because all you've done is take, take, take. You want to make the ID even more restrictive than it was before, and give nothing in return.
I started a thread specifically for the community to figure out a role for these ships to play. Since that time, it has been derailed, flamed, trolled, derailed again, used as another canvas to promote the topic of THIS thread, and so on. Not one of you has come up with any constructive suggestions for the role these ships could fill, which is just absolutely incredible considering the tidal wave of nope and backlash that was Jinx's thread proposing the capship overhaul. And much of that backlash came from OF representatives.
Maybe our OFs were good once upon a time, but that time has long since passed, and I'm not the only one who thinks so.
Phoenix, this ball is heavily in your court. The deep Omicrons are your playground. If anyone ought to be coming up with ideas for activity for these ships, it's you. And the fact that all I keep hearing from you is 'stop making Zoner threads' makes me think Phoenix is just as deleterious to the health of the faction as the other two.
The indie Zoner will look at this ID and say to themselves, "Okay, I can't do this, this, and this. What can I do?"
The community's answer:
Well, the Zoner caps I've encountered in Liberty (quite a few, I must add) are either:
A) Relatively new players that seek an active place to test their fancy capital ship
B) Relatively new players exploring around with their fancy capital ship
and even C) Relatively new players trading in cruisers/battleships.
What happens when that occurs:
A) A mass of Liberty lawfuls gathers round and RPs the "foreign warship in Liberty". The player is advised how/when he can be there and for what reasons. Since it's not the case at that moment, a convoy is formed and he's then escorted out.
B) The player just seeks PvP and gets it/ Refuses to be escorted out. People get blue messages.
I agree these can be annoying at certain times, but they bring amusement and some activity as well. We just love to hate Zoner caps in House space.
Don't restrict them rule-wise, RP-wise is enough in my opinion.
Ok, then. So, why don't we use the Nephilim as a colony ship and the Aquilon as a defense carrier against Nomad patrols? The Fearless can help on defense, and the Corvo could be an exploration vessel...
Wait!! That's what they are!! That's how official factions have used them all along!! Oh, so there was no problem in the first place!! No zoner drama! OH!
The next guy that calls for any change on any zoner asset must first suggest to have one asset of his most played faction removed/changed also. Again: shut up already and go play.
(and, yeah, thank you Fifty, some sensive opinion in this thread for once)