I'm gonna have a trip to several systems to see how many ships there are or you could post the numbers here and I made a mistake. When I'm counting the ships of a faction, I'm not considering only the ones that you can dock on but all the stationary ships of that faction (some of them are listed as satellites and don't appear in FL Stats).
Based on your suggestions so far, I'll modify the list tomorrow (I mean today after I get some sleep).
(07-22-2014, 01:54 AM)Mao Wrote: About the Coalition being rated too high. I understand your concerns but the coalition didn't have its main system blown up by aliens lately. Another fact is that the Coalition managed to influence the political class in Liberty while Order or BHG have no intention to even try that. You see? Coalition is waging war on almost all fronts while the other two stick only to military ops. But you might be right.
They had its main planet bombed to dust by Phantoms (now retconned to "unnamed Coalition enemy"). They have no influence Sirius wide, heavily dependent on Red Hessians to survive - creating Omega 5 flank to save them from Corsair onslaught or the fact that Hessians are much more established than SCRA in all aspects from industrial backbone through numbers and public support to military. I dont see communist riots happening in Liberty or some unlawfuls/rebels changing their mind and embracing the Premier. They are rated too high.
(07-22-2014, 01:54 AM)Mao Wrote: Now Order:
first red text - I didn't express myself the right way... Outcast and BHG Core could threaten Order claims in the Omicrons. BHG is doing it already. OCs not so much for the reasons you stated and because they have more problems elsewhere.
You dont understand me. Outcasts have no capability to move an invasion fleet to central Omicrons without having it blown to dust by all the locals on the way through. The only threats to The Order's position in Omicrons are Core and Nomads.
(07-22-2014, 01:54 AM)Mao Wrote: 3rd red text - Hathor. The official order faction requested that the new model to be replaced replaced again by an older Hathor model. inRP this was explained that the new design was too complicated and hard to built for a faction that was almost destroyed.
INRP new Hathor never happened. We didn't liked the revision (which we never were consulted about) and therefore asked kindly to reverse to our favoured. On other hand The Order rolled in several new inventions: whole new light fighter (Onuris), revised completely one of their VHF's (Bastet mk2) and reworked their entire carrier force (Geb buff from battlecruiser to battleship class).
(07-22-2014, 01:54 AM)Mao Wrote: Nomads too weak? How powerful would you say they are? They have wild and iseijin but I wouldn't make them as powerful as a house of Sirius. After all, the Nomads we have now in Sirius are what remained after Trent played the hero. Not that much...
Nomads rebuilt since. They "grow organic" rather than to scourge mining fields for pretty rocks. They did forged their own corner in Sirius while humanity was licking wounds. They never were capable to kill houses outright - which does not neccesarily make them weak in the first place.
This is clearly incorrect as the more proper power levels would be : Daam K'Vosh Empire +9000
And now on a more serious note:
Coalition
From a small terrorist cell to a mini-house. That's the Coalition. They established strong political socialist parties all over Sirius and their military is spreading the glory of socialism where propaganda has little effect. About their enemies... there are lots of them but somehow they manage to avoid direct confrontations. The guerrilla war is well known among them and it proves to be successful.
Controlled systems: 1
Battleships: 0
Bases: 4
Yes we are a Mini house.
No, We do not have strong political parties in every house
We do have lots of enemies yes and we avoid large confrontations by simply staying in the shadows and running when we need to.
Red Hessians
A strong faction that's aiming to change things in Rheinland and it shouldn't be too hard considering Rheinland's status right now. The Hessians managed to bring a new ship to their line, a ship to take out the heavy Rheinland battleships or the corsair dreadnoughts. The main enemies of this faction are the Corsairs and the Rheinland lawfuls. The problem is that Rheinland has no major war on its head now so they might turn their navies attention to their domestic unlawfuls.
Controlled systems: 0.5
Battleships: 0
Bases: 9
Controlled Systems: Assuming your counting guard systems 2.5 Systems Half of Omega 11, Half of Dresden, Half of Omega 5, and The guard system (O-54)
Xenos
Crazy people that don't like others. Nationalists with shotguns and pick-ups patrolling the borders and causing problems.Zero for the following: political power, military power, economic power. They have enemies all over the place and they use whatever they can find to shoot people.
Controlled systems: 1
Battleships: 0
Bases: 9
The do not like others except Corsairs. For some reason. (dreams of Xeno Ship line now that we have the best ship builders in Sirius as our buddies)
It really is and intresting lineup and I enjoyed reading through it but I think not mentioning the AI at all is a little too less credit. Sure it's not the largest faction, but they've got some economical power and two very effective combat vessels. I don't want to overrate the AI Consensus but I'd at least make them stronger than some random terrorists...
Trying to rate the influence of Houses, Corporations, Pirate, and Revolutionary entities all on the same scale usually doesn't provide a good representation of each faction, unless you're only examining the same aspect across each faction (for example, direct combat strength).
Maybe you wonder how come mighty Gallia comes in second place. They got the best technology, the most resources (not really), they got the numbers. Yes but they also got civil war (the Council and the Maquis say "bonjour!"). They also have long supply lines and a lot of hostiles along them. Their flanks are kinda open. Yes, Kusari is neutral but there are others like the Colonial Republic, the Outcasts and pirate and terrorist groups (QCP, Brigands, and your average pirate). Outcasts are neutral to Gallia atm. Their blitzkrieg against Bretonia came to a stop and now they're just skirmishing at the front lines. Liberty sent forces to help Bretonia, Mollys might not like the Gauls too much and they can hit their flanks Mollys have a NAP with GRN. and even Gaians might look suspicious to these new masters of Gaia. Liberty is compact while Gallia isn't and that's why you have the difference but it's not a big difference anyway.
Controlled systems: 24
Battleships: 19 + approx 100-125 in Gallia and ~150 spread across the Taus, upper half of Bretonia and maybe Magellan too.
Bases: 51
[...]
Council
The Council lost a lot of bases and hardware when the gauls attacked Sirius and they could lose Champagne if Gallia would focus on it. The Council managed to hold Champagne when Gallia was focusing on it. Now, the council is in a precarious position with Champagne but they have a good bridgehead in Sirius. And a lots of allies against gallic forces.
Controlled systems: 2 (I guess Artois isn't counted in, npnp, it'll be gone soon anyways)
Battleships: 3 + 25 in Champagne + 5 in Roussillon (none of these are enough to protect the systems from surrounding hostiles, but Champagne got environmental advantage for us while Roussillon has been kept secret so far)
Bases: 12
[...]
Brigands
Like the Liberty Rogues but with less firepower. They lack the capability of creating capital ships or even VHFs for that matter.
Controlled systems: 0
Battleships: 0
Bases: 3 + 11 (I see maths is not your best friend.)
[...]
Union Corse
Like Hogosha in Kusari but with less imagination and less influence. Lol. It's hard to influence a royal family that likes to dictate things. Their ships are snubs copied from the Brigands and slightly modified. They have no economic or military power. More lol. I'm sure Teerin would want to have a say at that.
Controlled systems: 0
Battleships: 0
Bases: 9
(07-22-2014, 01:11 AM)Omicron Wrote: Council - 20 - Able to sustain status quo against a bloody house (Gallia) but unable to make a significant move either.
This.
(07-22-2014, 01:54 AM)Mao Wrote: We work with what we have, not with what we want to have. But capacity to build capital ships is just one of the factors. On an unrelated note, I consider that everything is fine as it is with very small exceptions.
Who are "we"? What we have in-game and inRP are two different things, imagine how many stationary battleships would it need to actually represent house navies in-game through them...
(07-22-2014, 01:54 AM)Mao Wrote: Zoners have: a good functioning economy. Little to no conflicts. Capability to build ships, bases. A good stance with most of the houses. What they lack is unity, discipline and fighting skill.
Said lack of unity, discipline and fighting skills are what makes all these good points you listed kinda hard to exploit.
(07-22-2014, 01:54 AM)Mao Wrote: - yes, I only count static dockable battleships or ships because it would be very hard to get a fix number of all the BSes even from official faction leaders. Everyone will bring huge numbers of capital ships to the table only to show off. So, in order to eliminate the human need to wave the e-pen, I'll only count the dockable ships that were put there by the devs.
Fix numbers aren't that hard to get, all you need is to ask us to give numbers everybody agrees to. All we need is a consensus, but if you ignore us instead, that won't help you gaining more accurate numbers. Stationary battleships aren't put in-game with devs having only proper inRP force ratios in mind, but a lot of other gameplay aspects as well.
Tl;dr - You could ask us not to wave e-peen, but instead you ignore us and base your numbers on arbitrarily chosen things.
(07-22-2014, 01:54 AM)Mao Wrote: - bases are everything that can be docked on (stations, planets, outposts), except ships that inRP could move. Soooo... did I miscounted? How many are there. I used FL Stats to count bases.
I used FLStat too to correct you at one instance (Brigand base count).
Well I think I will be collecting these admin quotes as my signature "Collecting Admin quotes. So I gave him a Moderator one." -Moveit56 "Tractorlancer" -Jansen "I'm higher than aerelm's ping. ~Narc "Some random quote" -mwerte LWB is the bestest! ~ Moveit56 "Will you be my minion? -Mrs. Altejago No, he's mine ~Snoopy Wow, the Team's memory desk in this sig? K. I'm in ~ Dimon