Ship-based technerf

[Karst]

Okay, so we've been over this a number of times I guess.
We've had threads about it, we've had polls about it.

Now I'm sure it involved a lot of coding and effort to make this so-called "feature" possible, but the last time I remember this being discussed, the majority favored its removal, despite the lack of clarity in the OP.

To make this clearer than that time, I'll reiterate that I'm talking about SHIP-based technerf here, not ID-based technerf in general.
You know, that lovely feature that prevents Firekisses on Lhotses, and entirely removes any semblance of choice of weaponry for Gallics.

I have the impression that this feature wasn't included because of any balance issues, but simply because someone playing around with the code found out a way to make it possible - which is impressive, mind you - which was then implemented mainly because it was an impressive feat of coding.

There is no balance reason why this "feature" should exist.

Guns are so similar, there's no wild combination that confers a huge advantage to its user, particularly not any that aren't already prevented by ID-based technerf.

It's nothing more than an unnecessary limitation, an elimination of what could have otherwise been interesting choices. And that's the real problem here.

There should never be a change that simply makes things worse, unless it's necessary for balance.

Since this "feature" was implemented, I'm 100% certain there hasn't been a single player that returned to disco because FINALLY, Flashpoint/Carbine Sabres were impossible. Nobody's motivation to log has ever been increased by "we've found a new way to make tech combos useless!".

Seeing how this "feature" never had majority support and almost certainly never will, I'm wondering if there's any chance of this being removed again.
It's a basic principle of making the game attractive. More choices make the game attractive. Fewer choices do not make the game more attractive.

EDIT: Post 1000! WOOOOOO!

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[Lythrilux]

Agreed, it should be removed. It really kills the chance for interesting combinations.
I would like to see a removal of tech nerf in general though.

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[Haste]

But it lets you make a full 2.00 shotgun Sabre!

Just like the Bounty Hunters Guild and Hellfire Legion get to use!

It'd be truly horrible.

In all seriousness, with .87's weapon overhaul there's very little reason to keep shipcompat. All it does is reduce the number of options available to players.

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[Caconym]

Agreed. It should be removed. ID-based technerf is enough, especially since the nerf mechanism was originally put in place to prevent ooRP and OP combinations, and ID nerds were more than sufficient to prevent those. I don't see why we need additional restrictions on something that was working. Having the ship restrict the tech combination further is a nightmare for anyone wanting some variety in what they have.

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[Tachyon]

But it lets you make a full 2.00 shotgun Sabre!

Just like the Bounty Hunters Guild and Hellfire Legion get to use!

It'd be truly horrible.

Think of the children :OOO

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[SkyNet]

There is no balance reason why this "feature" should exist.

Don't they exists to keep the realism in game? Otherwise you would see the wildest combinations of guns. It wouldn't be realistic to see the Liberty Navy with a mixture of Corsair, Kusari, Gallia and Rheinland technology for example.

It's a basic principle of making the game attractive. More choices make the game attractive. Fewer choices do not make the game more attractive.

Actually we can use different engines and we have the possibility to request SRP ships.

Btw, is it possible to dissable those technerfs in conn? Becouse i don't know why they should be active there.

[Lythrilux]

There is no balance reason why this "feature" should exist.

Don't they exists to keep the realism in game? Otherwise you would see the wildest combinations of guns. It wouldn't be realistic to see the Liberty Navy with a mixture of Corsair, Kusari, Gallia and Rheinland technology for example.

You need to re-read the OP.
Karst isn't talking about tech nerf, which is what prevents an LN ID'd ship flying around with Corsair, Kusari, Gallia or Rheinland guns. He's talking about shipcompat, which is the thing that means Rogue weapons don't work on anything but Rogue ships (ergo you'll stupidly never see a Sabre or Eagle with Sammuels).

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[aerelm]

I have the impression that this feature wasn't included because of any balance issues, but simply because someone playing around with the code found out a way to make it possible - which is impressive, mind you - which was then implemented mainly because it was an impressive feat of coding.

Unfortunately, you couldn't be any more wrong with that assumption of yours. This system was specifically asked for by the balance team to help us filter out problematic combinations without having to nerf down everything to "remove the possibility of abuse", and once the system was put in place it was suggested to also introduce certain general lore-based restrictions (like Gallic and Sirian equipment being inrp incompatible) which also did indirectly help out the balance of each region as well.

There is no balance reason why this "feature" should exist.

Don't they exists to keep the realism in game? Otherwise you would see the wildest combinations of guns. It wouldn't be realistic to see the Liberty Navy with a mixture of Corsair, Kusari, Gallia and Rheinland technology for example.

You need to re-read the OP.
Karst isn't talking about tech nerf, which is what prevents an LN ID'd ship flying around with Corsair, Kusari, Gallia or Rheinland guns. He's talking about shipcompat, which is the thing that means Rogue weapons don't work on anything but Rogue ships (ergo you'll stupidly never see a Sabre or Eagle with Sammuels).

FL IDed Guardian with Corsair, Kusari, Gallia and Rheinland guns running at 75% would of course make perfect sense inRP. Why not throw an Inferno into that mix while at it? Additionally, it's rather funny you used Sammaels for your example, because that particular "balance oddity" happens to be one of the main reasons why shipcompat is needed, while based on whatever logic you're trying to use it as a reason why it's not required.

[Lythrilux]

There is no balance reason why this "feature" should exist.

Don't they exists to keep the realism in game? Otherwise you would see the wildest combinations of guns. It wouldn't be realistic to see the Liberty Navy with a mixture of Corsair, Kusari, Gallia and Rheinland technology for example.

You need to re-read the OP.
Karst isn't talking about tech nerf, which is what prevents an LN ID'd ship flying around with Corsair, Kusari, Gallia or Rheinland guns. He's talking about shipcompat, which is the thing that means Rogue weapons don't work on anything but Rogue ships (ergo you'll stupidly never see a Sabre or Eagle with Sammuels).

FL IDed Guardian with Corsair, Kusari, Gallia and Rheinland guns running at 75% would of course make perfect sense inRP. Why not throw an Inferno into that mix while at it?

Well it's because of the tech chart that we're allowed to get away with those combinations.
Why, if you remove it, official factions could actually start to regulate their own tech rather than people ending up with all these wild combinations 8|

Who's to say that combination might not make inRP sense though? Heck, why would anyone even want to use that combination for pvp?

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[Highland Laddie]

There is no balance reason why this "feature" should exist.

Don't they exists to keep the realism in game? Otherwise you would see the wildest combinations of guns. It wouldn't be realistic to see the Liberty Navy with a mixture of Corsair, Kusari, Gallia and Rheinland technology for example.

You need to re-read the OP.
Karst isn't talking about tech nerf, which is what prevents an LN ID'd ship flying around with Corsair, Kusari, Gallia or Rheinland guns. He's talking about shipcompat, which is the thing that means Rogue weapons don't work on anything but Rogue ships (ergo you'll stupidly never see a Sabre or Eagle with Sammuels).

FL IDed Guardian with Corsair, Kusari, Gallia and Rheinland guns running at 75% would of course make perfect sense inRP. Why not throw an Inferno into that mix while at it?

Well it's because of the tech chart that we're allowed to get away with those combinations.
Why, if you remove it, official factions could actually start to regulate their own tech rather than people ending up with all these wild combinations 8|

Who's to say that combination might not make inRP sense though? Heck, why would anyone even want to use that combination for pvp?

Yeah...because tech usage regulation in the hands of official factions only won't be a problem...I can hear all the indies QQing already.

And before you give the "we had it back in 4.85 and there was great because it involved more RP," I'd offer the counter-argument that it involves more busy work on the forums...not necessarily any kind of quality RP, especially since, at the end of the day, it would simply be up to the whims of the official faction leader, who for whatever reason, may withhold tech usage rights for OORP reasons.