I didn't thought I'd agree with you, Haste, about something in the near future. I find myself now in this position.
Treewyrm, here's a simple argument that I have about these permanent cloaks is... why do you need them?
If you need a permanent cloak for a certain (player) faction, because you want some shiny toy just for yourself, ditch the ego. The need disappears.
If you need a permanent cloak because the Omicrons are not safe for the Nomads to travel, well. Let's consider another faction which is facing a similar dilemma. The BHG Core has a handful of bases, and nobody else likes them around that block. So, judging by comparison, would they need a permanent cloak too? Probably not, since there's no need - you want to interact with more than just NPCs when you get online.
Do you need a permanent cloak on your Nomad for successfully traversing, say, Liberty (or any other house)? Let's consider the Xenos (and other similar factions, such as Gaians). They want to travel from Colorado to Hudson - via New York - do they need a permanent cloak for that? No, there's no need, you can always stay away from trade lanes and hostile bases.
The only use for that thing is just interaction avoidance. If you wish so much to avoid interacting with people, why do you bother getting online? Single player will help you do just that.
As far as I know, only the Nomad Battleship had that ability to cloak and vanish. Even in the intro you will find it.
Terrible Idea, I have said that already - I don't know if its in this thread or not, but Terrible in short.
(10-19-2014, 11:00 AM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote: As far as I know, only the Nomad Battleship had that ability to cloak and vanish. Even in the intro you will find it.
Terrible Idea, I have said that already - I don't know if its in this thread or not, but Terrible in short.
Those ships in the intro are fighters, you know. In Disco, you can fly them as either Labraid or Nomad Morph.
Additionally, the Rheinland Military had the cloak technology, aswell as practically all nomad ships.
Images below for comparison. The most easily noticable thing is that these are too small to be battleships and that the spike at the front would be much longer, if they were battleships.
It had been quite instrumental in creating situations that led to quite awesome roleplay scenarios that would have been impossible without it.
It's sort of reminiscent of Ridley Scott original Alien where you kinda know it is there but you don't exactly know where or when it'll pop out and what it'll do next. Except you are that thing. NPCs can't do that so it is for players to work it out. For example there were pretty nice all-RP incursion (not the mmorpuger-farmers) into nomad space by a bunch of characters, sometime ago there were Core| folks, there were some indies too of other factions. And it was a pretty thick atmosphere for those players because there were also nomad players who had been trailing them, occasionally making appearance in the distance, trying to get the group to split and separate, and with all that setting there was genuine roleplay, improvisations with slowly developing paranoia, increasing tensions between the characters too. What I'm saying is that I'm after creating these kind of cinematic experiences and I'm glad that I have the means and tools to do them now, and from my post-encounter conversation with those players they did like that too, the thrill sense the encounters had. Or another example sometime ago there were encounters with human associates the nomads have, and then others approaching to find out what is going on there, why the ship they told to dock to Freeport 11 deviated off the course completely, and just the moment upon arriving my nomad character disappears and then the moment hangs in the air, the tension of conversation, and the patrol who went to do check-in are trying to figure it out, the unnerving situation of something amiss there transforms into roleplay as it is meant to do. I don't see why I must give up on the possibility to create these experiences.
These days PvP here is something that had lost its interest to me entirely. I've seen it all really, been there seven years after all, and I know too there are no new mechanics can be either for technical reasons and extremely limited capacity to mod behavior aspects of the gameplay. So I'm after creating different kind of experiences for players and if I have more means to do that then I'm happy to provide more variety there and try to combine things to create the dynamic narrative from what little arsenal of a director tools we have. Fewer and diminishing tools to do that mean that I have less incentive to play the game, less incentive to partake there and make new content as well, as if that's what this mod needs, right? I didn't came here to play skinlancer competitive multiplayer shooter, that's not what I'm after, my time with those have ended with Quake 3 and UT99 days. It's not like I can't find another mod for another game to work on as a hobby.
I say terrible because no one gives a finger for rp - atleast from what I've seen. Almost every nomad I meet uses the tool to cloak, follow - and unclock when it suits it best - no interaction, no role-play - and I have to hear excuses of "Its a dangerous place, deal with it" oh really? So my question to you is, Would you prefer an empty dangerous place or a place of danger with people? Because I don't plan on keeping my activity there if that continues on any further. Especaily when I only play Zoner - That's a triple big NO.
Last minute edit : I think every change that gives power to one faction should also be balanced to other factions around it.
I've seen a good deal of cases, both the ones where no one cared and the ones where people cared. Same can be said about nearly everything else here. As for saying there'll no people left at all well that's more of doom'n'gloom type of rhetoric that had been used since oh... before my time here even. The time when it'll be devoid of people is when technical reasons would prohibitive to play (incompatibility with newer OSes) for most and when it'll stop being maintained and updated, not the forum shrieking of a vocal few. To put in perspective of time - of the people who were there at the beginning there is practically no one left (the only other old-timer I saw recently here is onca). People move on, they come and go, that's a normal thing.
While it is a good argument, It sidesteps what the Dev team is here for after all, Among other things - to balance places to increase traffic not to reduce it. Now, I may have offended you guys a little while saying all this but I have much respect to what you guys do and even if its a bad job, I still appericiate it. But, This is plain stupid to give one faction an enhancement while the other factions are left clueless. As you have pointed out, most people in the omicrons are new - so they aren't like the ones you knew who you would trust them to hold these toys. I want danger but at the same time feel that I don't waste my time flying all by my own with no one to talk to. If nomads want ffa style then bring it, but Don't make a laugh of the whole thing by hiding all over the place and show up at the last minute, because by then It's WAY UP HERE. You might find a different arguement for corsairs for instance, but I'm a zoner - which means that im confronted with a nomad that not only can insta-engage me but can also toy with me while being stealth. It's enough that we barely have enough rights to engage them, but now we have nothing to have for ourselves. So the hold arguement of " Wow.. so much zoner caps what the hell?" Yes - I'd rather fly a cap all day long then to get blown up by a cloaking gunboat and wait 2 hours. As someone already pointed out, People will always complain - but there has to be a line drawn here - Where both sides are somehow in agreement on the very basic stuff.
(10-19-2014, 12:04 PM)Zen_Mechanics Wrote: Where both sides are somehow agree on the very basic stuff.
Well more often than not there are more sides than just two. Close proximity of competing areal and intersections.
But beside that there is rarely agreement around, people often have mutually exclusive opinions about what should be here or there, or shouldn't be, or how. Discovery in that regard is no different to others, there are always community members, regardless of the game, who will believe that their opinion is absolutely important and have to be taken in by developers. But then as a developer what you see a bunch of people each of which have their own views not compatible with one another and each one demands not only to be heard but actually expecting their personal opinion is to be a guide for developers. You just happen to be one of those people, but don't assume that if you keep chaingun fire those posts they'll become important or relevant any time soon to anyone relevant.
Sometimes not directly but minor parts of one idea entirely make the other one not function at all. Seen that too when some people would deliberately propose 'alternative' idea that contains a little detail that negates the other entirely. Those kind of shill submarine tactics. If everything required whole consent then nothing would be done at all because there always will be disagreements. It's a fancy but utterly naive idea to think that for everything to happen there has to be everyone involved to agree. After all it's not like you agree to be pirated on your zoner transport in an encouter or to be blown into bits by order vessels.