New thread: Nerf missiles (or missile count)

[Corile]

but fights simply take way too long.

Oh look, someone actually pointed out something I've been talking about ever since I joined disco.

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Reflections on the Revolution in Gallia
Custodi // High City of Heraklion // The Cult of Archangels
Log Filter // Post Creator // Manhattan

[Sath]

but fights simply take way too long.

Oh look, someone actually pointed out something I've been talking about ever since I joined disco.

Maybe if people are skilled enough to use 2.00 rather than the "spraying 8.33/5.88" technique, snub fights won't even last a bit of what you are percieving it to be. That is no excuse to just "press key X at time T for win". I found 2.00 very effective, and it gets even better when you are skilled enough to aim. Takes a lot less time to finish off that odd snub, then while using 8.33 and missing around 80% of my shots.

If you aren't willing to learn, well, go for the slow kill with 8.33 guns and click your right mouse button like mad (takes longer time). But, if you do want snub fights to take less time to end, and you are not willing to put in effort towards that, then comes this, rather cheap way of winning fast, and without much learning. Snub fights are now becoming as cheap and shite as grinding for cash is, now. Like, every silent engager and his mom has a cap8 BS insta'ing things he sees. The same person now has a missile/torp sabre/guardian and does the same thing. Skill and the hours put in, is something that is being rendered completely obsolete in this game, as a vet with hundreds of hours of practise can be shot down at a moments notice by some random newbie with a dual missile gb, who just started playing this game a week or two back.

[Jack_Henderson]

Pavel has a point here. With Disco's snub pvp being as exclusive as it is, some kind of key has to given to the 80 % of useless people to participate in pvp and not just be the hordes that are slain by those who mastered it.

After my break and my last recruitment push, I get the following answer when I call my newer ranks to fights: "Sorry. I'm sh... at pvp. I'd rather not try."

I disagree with the idea that missiles in their current state are this "key" for participation. They are just way too strong, seriously, and need to be adjusted to give the below-average minority a chance and grant them fun in the pvp aspect of Disco. Problem: taking candy away is really hard.

I agree with pretty much everybody here (and I think there is widespread consensus) that fighter pvp should somehow be more accessible. I agree with Haste that gun-shooting should be made easier. I feel like... WW1, when 95 % of bullets fired in air combat just hit nothing at all.

I'd just love to try doubling gun-projectile speeds. Click and hit what you aim at at a more reasonable rate. Would that help? I don't know. I have no clue how hard it is to test that (e.g. on a separate server).

Summed up: I do not think missiles in their current form are a way to "fix" the extremely exclusive and frustrating (for the majority) snub pvp system. They need to be adjusted. I would also like to look at projectile speeds for making pvp easier (but don't know whether it really would work).

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[SnakThree]

Pavel, I have a job and Uni. Tell me more how I should be easily missile spammed by "tired" people and still enjoy what little of inRP PvP I have on my 20 FPS laptop while having sleep deprivation.

Yes, same people who complain how missiles make skill obsolete might be more tired than young players who want easy way into being annihilating force to be reckoned without putting any effort past getting 20 mills for missile snub.

I suck at using guns. Many people can confirm that. They can also confirm how I found ways to compensate for that by using other methods, that do not rely on having twice more missiles on my side and giving NO CHANCE for others to fight back

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[Haste]

I don't think we should remove the skill ceiling as Hidamari pointed out, but fights simply take way too long. Guns themselves should receive a damage buff in order to shorten the length of snub pvp fights and this wouldn't change the whole skill ceiling (and make more incentive to use them compared to missile). It would be better than spamming missiles whom should be a tactical thing instead of a spam gun.

While I'm inclined to agree with this purely out of egotistical reasons, it doesn't really solve the "fights between bad players last forever because nobody can hit anything" problem.

Unfortunately, the only solution I see that would make aiming significantly easier would be bumping up projectile speed. Unfortunately, that also drastically changes how Freelancer's "aiming system" works. Right now, it's about predicting how your opponent will move in the next second or so. Bump up speed, and it's just about moving your mouse over the crosshair. A different, and in my opinion less appealing, means to aim. If I want crosshair aim, I'll play a generic FPS.

Further upping damage will make 'aces' even more dominant, in all likelihood. In addition, it'll make snubs even more potent against capitals.

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[VoluptaBox]

What happened to the old idea of removing or reducing armor and/or regen, as a mean to shorten fights.

[Omi]

Part of the problem is this constantly-perpetuated mentality that loads of people don't seem able to get over (hi Pavel!) whereby 'getting good' is apparently some kind of strenuous, arduous task akin to mastering a real-life martial art.

It's really not. Just throw yourself into groupfights every so often and you'll see improvement. Seeing people whinge about how 'aces' apparently train in Conn for hours and hours every day - or that they ever did as a matter of course - is hilarious. I reached my current (meager) level of competency by just hurling myself into the occasional groupfight in a 2.00 Lynx.

There should be no compensation for lazy people who like to hide behind a defense of "oh but I'm too busy IRL!/don't have the time!/it takes YEAAAAARS!", because they're simply wrong. Maybe if you want to achieve 'best duelist on server' status and don't have any particular flair for it, sure, but suggesting that it takes literal years of effort to become competent at this game? Wise up, please.

If you can't find the time for getting involved in even one or two groupfights a week - because that's seriously all it takes - please don't cry about getting destroyed by people who do put a modicum of effort in. You won't hear me whinging about not being able to beat other BSes in my Valor and clamoring for the skill ceiling to be put down, because I have about two/three hours total Valor flight time, and have no real interest in practicing my cap combat to get better.

Maybe we should just scrap PvP in its entirety and use the /coin and /dice commands instead. Heads you leave for 2 hours, tails I leave.

Fair, no?

tl;dr
everyone better than me has no life!!!
everyone worse than me is a scrub lol!!!

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[Pavel]

Hi Omi! [:

You see, while snub pvp is something as natural for someone who mastered it as swimming or riding bike, people just know how to do it once they get it, there is not small group of people who don't get it. Thing is, these people are bigger part of this server. I'm not talking about becoming duelist of the year here, but about becoming average at all. People keep asking for YT tutorials, forum guides, Conn training sessions, and yet they fail.


Mmmaaaybbee pvp for those loads of people, that vast majority of the server, is not as easy as it may be for you or Haste, so mmaaayybee not everything is ok with that situation, mmmaaayybeee for bigger part of this server it indeed is strenuous, arduous task and mmmaaayybeee something should be done about that, so those loads of people who actually "don't deserve" blues also could participate in pvp in some other form than cannon fodder.

[Redon]

hi

Nerf missiles, or make them SHF-exlusive like spazzy suggested, then fix the gun problem by introducing a wider range of gun speeds up to 1000 or beyond, but for which dps/dpe are severely* reduced. This would require some experimenting, but perhaps there's a way to make it feasible to use low projectile speeds for much higher damage if you can hit them somewhat reliably, but remove the spray and pray element that is frustrating the noobs so much.

* When I say severely, I mean nerf them so hard that a skilled player would always pick the slower guns, but not enough to make them useless to someone who can't hit with anything else.

[bloogaL]

Hi Omi! [:

You see, while snub pvp is something as natural for someone who mastered it as swimming or riding bike, people just know how to do it once they get it, there is not small group of people who don't get it. Thing is, these people are bigger part of this server. I'm not talking about becoming duelist of the year here, but about becoming average at all. People keep asking for YT tutorials, forum guides, Conn training sessions, and yet they fail.


Perhaps mmmaaaybbee pvp for those loads of people, that vast majority of the server, is not as easy as it may be for you or Haste, so mmaaayybee not everything is ok with that situation, mmmaaayybeee for bigger part of this server it indeed is strenuous, arduous task and mmmaaayybeee something should be done about that, so those loads of people who actually "don't deserve" blues also could participate in pvp in some other form than cannon fodder.

Forum and video guides will only take you so far and conn training sessions are generally not worth the time put in to organising them.

It's all about attitude. The people who succeed at snub pvp in this game are those who keep at it. The people who stay bad at the game are those who take on a defeatist attitude too easily after dying a few times and decide the curve's too steep to properly work at.

There are plenty of people who have got good at the game simply by doing what Omi brought up. Throw yourself in to the meatgrinder over and over, preferably alongside some other competent players who can help guide you (there are plenty around), and you'll improve.