okay so contraband, smuggling and unlawful trading. 'that old chestnut'
I think that smuggling should incur more risk, for more reward. im pretty sure that most people would agree this is how it should be based on the sheer number of threads on the subject over the years.
I think they should be pretty much akin to mineable ores in terms of profits, but unlike ore which is free, contraband commodities should cost a lot to buy as a balance.
So right now it costs roughly 500 credits for one unit of cardamine, for a full 5k thats 2.5mil, which is pretty much no risk, you can sell it on buffalo in new york (native unlawful sell point) for about 4500 (not at home right now, cant get exact figure) which is 22,500,000, or 20,000,000 profit. honestly not worth it.
I think it should cost 4500-5500 per unit to buy, and then sold for 13000-14000 per unit.
So that you are putting a lot of an investment into being able to make serious credits quickly.
there is of course "what is counted as contraband" because everywhere has their own rules, I literally mean the items that are undeniably illegal in all houses, like artifacts, cardamine, counterfit software, black market munitions. things like this.
An ore run with a ~4k ship makes ~35 mil now and you have to pay a miner. You need 2 players. Your risk is considerable, as you lose the money you bought the ore for (never less than 10 mil). That leaves you at 25 mils profit, and you need 2 players cooperating.
Now, you complain about a single-player action "only" netting 22 million, with next to no risk in case you get caught.
So, you can anticipate my opinion. No.
We do not need even more unlawful "smuggling" that means inreality running a 5k into the base at low activity times, and involve a lot of oorp docking, FR5 madness, sanctions, caps instakilling transports, etc etc etc.
What we need is more regular traffic in the lanes that can be streamlined via bottlenecks to a few selling points, so that more interaction takes place.
What we do not need is: smugglers who avoid lanes, and remain invisible for even higher profit with more QQ involved in case they get hit because losing a lot hurts people and triggers the mad-cycle.
I don't think profit rates should or indeed could be increased by much without damaging the economy. There's already a monumental amount of money in the system due to a number of reasons.
The problem is that no matter how great the risk if a loss is incurred, this is very easy to prevent by flying during very low activity hours or on very low activity routes (of which there are a few), and constantly checking the player list.
Aside from all that, contraband already has pretty nice profit margins, much higher than legal commodities.
However, I totally agree with higher base prices, not just for contraband but for other high value commodities as well - diamonds, gold, anything with luxury in its name, military vehicles, cigars, etc. should all have 10-15 times higher base prices, and somewhat higher profit margins as well.
pretty sure a hegemon mining for itself can get more money than a smuggler can without paying a dime for it.
and all those reasons you stated, they just all equal 'activity'. oorp docking? that means somebody else actually bothered logging in to catch sombody, probably more than one person. at least one of those people will either make a communication thread to their superiors or to the individula in question telling them to pay a fine, or both.
not everyone can play at the low activity times, some people have no choice but to play in the low activity times, so again who cares about this? it is completely uncontrollable.I do wonder why you care that other people can make money?
also not taking action based soley on the fact that somebody will complain is just the absolute wrong way to do things, because somebody is -always- going to complain no matter what happens, so with that attitude we may as well just lock up the forums, and everyone uninstalls their game.
FR5's arent even difficult to bypass because id's rephack everything automatically, somebody gets FR5'd all they need to do is mount 1 maybe 3 different ID's in sequence and everything is fine again. it also makes those factions doing the FR5'ing more vigilant, and slightly increases activity.
people get sanctioned all the time, this is not an acceptable reason for inaction.
and since its already a pretty well documented fact that the apocalypse didnt happen when cruisers and battleships were first allowed to engage transports like everyone (Even me) thought it would, i find your sudden choice of caps insta killing transports as a point of debate pretty meaningless.
(02-26-2015, 04:04 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: What we do not need is: smugglers who avoid lanes
I do need quote this though, because what person in a role play sense, is going to use the lanes while carrying ileagal goods. there are invisible smuggling lanes through open space which are actually pretty obvious. are you saying that smugglers need to use the lanes?
(02-26-2015, 04:04 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: What we do not need is: smugglers who avoid lanes, and remain invisible for even higher profit with more QQ involved in case they get hit because losing a lot hurts people and triggers the mad-cycle.
Main part of smuggler's RP is avoiding to get spoted/caputed. Using trade lanes (if you mean those) would be completely dull for a person, who want to stay away from lawfull eyes.
(02-26-2015, 04:04 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: What we do not need is: smugglers who avoid lanes, and remain invisible for even higher profit with more QQ involved in case they get hit because losing a lot hurts people and triggers the mad-cycle.
Why the hell would smugglers use Lanes? Flying 30k below the plane on the other hand is a different story that I agree is a bit dumb in my opinion of course.
(02-26-2015, 04:22 PM)Hidamari Wrote: pretty sure a hegemon mining for itself can get more money than a smuggler can without paying a dime for it.
Implying anybody who wants to keep their sanity would haul in a Hegemon.
Quote:oorp docking? that means somebody else actually bothered logging in to catch sombody, probably more than one person. at least one of those people will either make a communication thread to their superiors or to the individula in question telling them to pay a fine, or both.
Or more likely file it as 1.3 and be mad about it, cause Admin work for stupid reasons, detracting their attention from valid things, and causing more trouble after sanction is out.
Quote:[...] so again who cares about this?
Me.
Quote:I do wonder why you care that other people can make money?
Because there are ways of making money that add more and there are some that add less to the interaction levels on the server. Smuggling adds barely anything as good smuggling TM avoids all interaction. From a gameplay perspective it is counter-productive to give it perks and encourage something that does not benefit the gameplay.
Quote:FR5's arent even difficult to bypass because id's rephack everything automatically, somebody gets FR5'd all they need to do is mount 1 maybe 3 different ID's in sequence and everything is fine again. it also makes those factions doing the FR5'ing more vigilant, and slightly increases activity.
It's against the rules.
And only untagged indies can do this.
But ye, power-smuggling, on untagged indies, making 14k at low activity hours.
That will totally be the way to make money while avoiding to add anything to the roleplay experience on the server.
Quote:[...]the apocalypse didnt happen when cruisers and battleships were first allowed to engage transports like everyone (Even me) thought it would, i find your sudden choice of caps insta killing transports as a point of debate pretty meaningless.
That statement was linked to sanctions resulting from no-rp smugglers who crashdock into lawful bases while caps try to stop it, but can't be fast bc they have to give roleplay. And no, we do not need more sanctions.
Quote:
(02-26-2015, 04:04 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: What we do not need is: smugglers who avoid lanes
I do need quote this though, because what person in a role play sense, is going to use the lanes while carrying ileagal goods. there are invisible smuggling lanes through open space which are actually pretty obvious. are you saying that smugglers need to use the lanes?
Badly worded, agreed.
Let me reword it: We do not need more hidden, invisible activity because it adds nothing to the game. Clearer?
(07-30-2014, 03:28 PM)Captain_Nemo Wrote: I feel like a good start would be buffing Cardi/Artifacts given the number of new Outcasts groups
for example, instead of costing the 2ish million credits to buy 3600 units of cardi that I can sell for 15 mil ish
I would buy 3600 units at say 10-15 mil and sell for say 15-25 mil if not higher
profit margins remain the same but it is a higher risk cargo for the smuggler to lose credit wise would give incentive to pirate/police groups to capture the cargo and sell it themselves or destroy it in the police case.
I already see the same arguments from the last thread, this is going to be another half and half split
e: found my old calculations
(07-30-2014, 07:14 PM)Captain_Nemo Wrote: Apparently there is a lot of confusion on what Ace is suggesting. The following is an example of increasing the profit risk of Cardimine
Buy
Omicron Alpha
549 Credits per unit of Cardi
or
1,976,400 Credits for 3600 units
Sell
Texas
5255 Credits per unit of Cardi
or
18,918,000 Credits for 3600 units
Profit: 16,941,600
I suggest the following, prices of course would have to be raised along the route accordingly
Buy
Omicron Alpha
5525 Credits per unit of Cardi
or
19,890,000 Credits for 3600 units
Sell
Texas
10,231 Credits per unit of Cardi
or
36,821,600 Credits for 3600 units
Profit: 16,941,600
no change in net profit, major change in profit risk