Discovery is too convoluted

[nOmnomnOm]

Let me ask you a very simple question.

If you were designing a game for yourself. Your ideal game that would have all the best bits about a game you find fun; would you be grinding for points in it?

without the grinders there is no/less rp
With no traders and miners there is no pirates
With no pirates then there is little need for lawful

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[t0l]

I don't think you're restricted as to where you can go as per ZoI, only what you can do.

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[Blodo]

RE: Grinding for points, have you played literally any MMO out there? They all have their own versions of a grind, and nobody so far has managed to invent a system that wouldn't be grindy, and yet would provide new unlocks over a stretch of time as opposed to making everything available to a player at the same time which means everyone is the biggest, baddest mother straight from the start. Which might sound interesting as a thought experiment, but in reality most people would log on for the first time, try out the caps, say "cool" then dock and log off and never play again. And in the mean time because precisely they were not forced to engage in "grinding" activity, a whole bunch of smaller nuances and fun activities here and there pass them by because they simply didn't stay long enough to see the detail in the big picture.

The mod is kind of like a painting, the longer you stay and interact with it the more details you see, the more satisfied you might be. On the other hand gaming culture is so casual, everyone just wants to try out the cool toys and move on. What other way to show off the "slightly less cool toys" that might actually seize someone's attention and yet are not talked about as much, than by involving some grind activity to encourage a longer stay?

That's my theory on it anyway. I've seen threads before where people complained that a lack of ingame money is stifling their RP. To me that always sounded silly, there's so many ways one can get required cash and/or help for stuff, all that is needed is some awareness of methods. And the only way one gains this awareness is by interacting with the community on the server. So maybe the grind is important, if just for nothing else than awareness. I had fun grinding away for my first billion and seeing things around Sirius for the first time. Getting stopped by pirates, navy, police, sometimes other corps, trading in a group or alone, finding myself in a system I shouldn't be in and realising that only when danger happened to chase me, having to talk my way out of sticky situations... and yet I'd be lying if I said that my only reason for coming here in the first place when I joined wasn't "look at all these cool big ships".

[HuggieSunrise]

vary good post.

Though. essentially what were dealing with essentially is a lack of development as to the concept of the mod. if it was done completely all the rules and guidelines would be as you say "in the game".

This would be a reputation systems that's more robust and less plastic that it came with. As far as i know, locking the rep to the id system has been done to the fullest possibility leaving just enough leeway to either keep most the factions neutral or hostile to you within the "role" of it. Really the only wiggle room left in the id system is ticking off every npc ship possible. and even recently they've been nerfed.

Something that probably should have happened a long time ago.

Again its no ones fault per say, people in the community got what they wanted .. thats basicly the reoccurring theme here. It isn't that... the mod is broken or unfinished its just a continuous revival of features and ships factions and people have wanted in the game for years.

is she overdue for a major rework?

OH YEAH..

but that's going to take a back seat.. again to what the status quo has always been here.

[Highland Laddie]

You cannot own a ship that is outside the parameters of your ID
You cannot go anywhere that is not listed in your ID
You can only undertake actions that are outlined in your ID

Not entirely true. You can own a ship outside your ID if you do some RP work for it. You can pretty much "go" anywhere with any ID, but you'll find yourself restricted in what you can DO in certain locations. And for any actions you DO take outside of what's outlined on your ID, you can face in-game consequences for.

[Jihadjoe]

A question: Can anyone think of a roleplay environment or game in which one can roleplay well without having a knowledge of the lore, "current events" in that world, and background?

[evanz]

A question: Can anyone think of a roleplay environment or game in which one can roleplay well without having a knowledge of the lore, "current events" in that world, and background?

^^^^^^^^^^ that and so in depth roleplay with it

THATS the reason disco is still going, is because people LOVE it and LIVE it ( if you know what i mean)

[Epo]

I totally agree with @Ash. Discovery has a lot of nice systems and ships which placed together gives an awesome universe. But it also has same number (or even more) restrictions. I personally know some people who started playing, liked the universe and Disco's ships, but gave up playing because they weren't able to do what they wanted to do with their ship of dreams.

I didn't mean we need to completely remove the restrictions. No, it brings so much fun to a lot of people, but we should also find way for newcommers to stay there for longer time.

I personally think Disco has many good aspects, but should be improoved in other way.
I can mention FLU server, which is very dead right now. But when I had my first steps in this game (there were much more ppl), I liked cooperating with ppl just to survive in Nomnom space. And I will say it again: Disco's ships and systems + basic cooperation character from FLU & system claims = best freelancer multiplayer server ever. Well, I know it can't happen, both Disco and FLU are a way too different. They just won't fit together, which is very sad for me.

Cheers, Cat~

//EDIT:

Well what can we do? I've got some ideas.

Well I was adding some systems to FL in the past, so I know it isn't very difficult. However, if I remember well, there's limited number of systems which can exist in game (placed on system list). What about dividing whole disco into 2 areas? Eg. inRP Core Worlds and ooRP Outer Rim. You can reach this just by adding more systems connected with Connecticut. ooRP universe will be connected with inRP one by /conn command. Well, back to the point, add as many as possible systems, subforum here with ooRP universe where people will be able to create unofficial and official factions. Give the right to claim ooRP systems only to official factions, so it will help to avoid creating tones of small empires. Add rules about starting war between factions and claiming systems. And check how it will work, in this way you won't remove stuff which already exists and give ppl chance to do something else in this mod. Well it's only my idea, I hope you will enjoy it and maybe even bring into Disco's reality. Anyway, I only wanted to share this idea.

Once again cheers,
Cat~

[Xawer]

I think people that really love this mod and the RP server should donate moneys, so they can make the modders update the news and rumors in Bars, based on RP events and world events, etc. Not sure how exactly it works, forgive me if i am ignorant.

I will soon give some cus i plan to stay here for a long time henceforth.

All in all with the exception of Gallia and the a little too many systems added everywhere, this Mod is almost perfect and is keeping the Freelancer community going so wouldn't nitpick small issues.

[Von Richtofen]

I agree with the OP in some respects. I have always argued that Disco is not a newb friendly experience. Firstly, they need to learn the server rules. Then once they have a slim grasp of those, they discover that each house has its own laws too. Then they need to learn inter-house politics and things such as trade restrictions etc. They also have to learn the restrictions of ship and equipment types pertaining to ID's and IFF etc. There's also the official factions and their RP which needs to be accommodated and often differs greatly from what the newby thought he learned already. Also let's throw in all the server commands and other miscellaneous know-how into the mix. Then, just when they think they have a core understanding, they are shown that a lot of those rules and regulations amount to nothing if you have to RP to justify something that conflicts them!
As far as I am concerned, RP is where the mod falls on its butt. The rules are required, I dont like some of them, but without law, there is chaos. However, when RP gets thrown into the equation, with a whole server of people thinking theirs is better and that everyone should accommodate theirs even though they won't do the same to others, then things get silly, childlike often. It's no wonder some newbies think "screw this! I learned all this stuff for nothing because everyone is doing what they like and saying its RP". This problem can only be solved by the players though and their attitude to others. It's not a dev issue.
We used to have some very different rules. Especially those concerning capships, faction equipment etc. They were changed, though I say they were relaxed, because they were being ignored and I feel the admin team just gave up trying to enforce them (it did seem impossible). Things were better then in my opinion, less confusing. If you didn't have a certain ID, you couldn't fly this or use that. None of this nonsensical "power penalty" that allows freelance pilots to roam about in Order gunships etc. It seems to me that with the change of the rules, things somehow paradoxically became more confusing and more relaxed at the same time. Leaving us with some very confuzzled new players and some very strange gameplay and dubious characters.
Don't get me wrong, I love Disco, I keep coming back to it again and again. However one thing that should be obvious to anyone is this: players leave games, they find other things to hold their attention or they just generally get bored or lose interest. Those players have to be replaced with new ones if a game isn't to die. If you make the game too confusing or the learning curve too steep, you are going to discourage some new players. The server numbers certainly seem to have dropped from what they used to be. We often had to queue to get on, and that was when the server took more connections than it does now. To attract and keep new players, you have to dazzle them initially, not befuddle them. Disco certainly dazzles, but it isnt too long before the befuddlement sets in for many. What's the answer? I have no idea.