Discussion Faction rephacked hostile: Order

[Lythrilux]

The Order acted against TAZ and Zoner indies, not just one faction. Both Order and TAZ leaders know what they can do to remove the hostile rep hack. If and when they act friendly toward each other, the admins will act accordingly. If the 'very bad Admin call' or if 'the decision was very flawed' or 'it was bad the admins implemented it' then wouldn't those factions be trying to fix relations between them ASAP? Obviously, either the damage to the factions is not as severe as some of you seem to indicate, or those factions are willing to endure it. Regardless, stop pinning this problem on the Admins, when it is clearly the problem between the players involved.

Personally, I love how some of you go off on us over this when none of you were involved in the powergaming/metagaming going on, the ID violations and the legitimate cries of complaint from players who expected factions to behave according to their IDs.

Bottom line, you want this fixed? Talk to the leaders involved and get them to fix it. The Admins aren't going to do it for you.

There are better methods which the admins can employ to deal with issues like this, without smashing a boot into Order activity. I also really fail to see how this drags indies into the 'mess' also. Whilst maybe I can't comment on all Order| did, I can still say that dragging the indies into the mess is unjustified.

And as I said, it's always been known that Zoner groups do not represent all Zoners. If Order| has 'hostilities' against one, or even two Zoner groups, that does not mean they're hostile to all Zoner groups as evidence by various roleplay Order has done with all sorts of Zoners.

I don't really think it's right to say that if the staff have made a bad decision, it's the responsibility of the players to fix it. If something has gone wrong, by the hands of the staff, they should be the ones to fix it. Order are trying to fix at least, by RP done with OSI, however that does not negate that this as a whole was a bad decision that should be reverse with or without RP to back up the reversal.

This isn't actually the first instance of this happening in disco - the Hamburg gates in Hudson and Bering were blown up without the consent of the factions involved, this lead to the activity of the Lib-Rhein war completely dying out. After everyone realised that this was a clossal mistake and should never have happened, the devs just told the Rheinland factions that they'd need to 'RP' to get it fixed (they were forced into a situation whereby they'd have to grovel to lib to end the war so that the gates could be rebuilt).

---

[WesternPeregrine]

The Order acted against TAZ and Zoner indies, not just one faction. Both Order and TAZ leaders know what they can do to remove the hostile rep hack. If and when they act friendly toward each other, the admins will act accordingly. If the 'very bad Admin call' or if 'the decision was very flawed' or 'it was bad the admins implemented it' then wouldn't those factions be trying to fix relations between them ASAP? Obviously, either the damage to the factions is not as severe as some of you seem to indicate, or those factions are willing to endure it. Regardless, stop pinning this problem on the Admins, when it is clearly the problem between the players involved.

Bottom line, you want this fixed? Talk to the leaders involved and get them to fix it. The Admins aren't going to do it for you.

isn't that first paragraph a fine example of why " this decision is very flawed "? We are talking about order and zoner relations here, and you direct the resolution of the issue to Taz and order relations alone, the same relationship that Has been roleplayed as bad.if order or other zoner representative tries to present the peace smoke pipe to the other party, their efforts shouldn't be blocked by Taz on their own.

Respect the order position, respect Taz position, but also respect the other zoners position too.

---

SIGNATURE

Kusari Former Mastermind

========================

| The Kusari Legal Codex |
| Character Profiles | The North Star Bulletin News|

[Swifty]

I'm pretty sure the rephack would be reversed if the Order apologised to the Zoners for their actions or did some grovelling. But you know, that's never going to happen so, y'know.

Enough said. ^

---

[Moberg]

I take it then that the TAZ, a small subgroup of Zoners located in one system close to the Taus, has the power to decide the politics of all Freeports and other Zoners?
I'm afraid that the decision involved little knowledge about Zoner groups and their reaction in past incidents. Do you remember the last prominent drama with the [ZA]? Zoner indies were shot. Why? They carried Nomad remains. Pretty much the reason for the Order shooting a small amount of other Zoners as well. And also the reason why they shot the TAZ, although in their case it was only assumed that they carry Nomad material due to an effect on a ship, with no way for the Order to verify the contrary.
What all of these incidents have in common is that the majority of the Zoners distanced themselves from the conflict or declared the involved vessels as rogue ships. In the [ZA] conflict, some groups even started aggression against the accused ships. Is this the reaction of somebody who wants a conflict with the Order? Is this the reaction of somebody who wants to sacrifice the many to meet the needs of the few?
No, this is the reaction of a group that deems occasional losses like that acceptable to maintain peace and balance, especially for your own again.

Ideally, each Freeport would have its own reputation sheet, with different relations and alliances. If the Freeport 10 Zoners have a problem with the Corsairs, the Freeport 5 Zoners would not care at all, because the FP5 Zoners rely on good relations with the Corsairs, even if it means that you have to accept getting pirated or occasionally killed. And if the Baffin Zoners have a problem with the Order for whatever reason, then the Freeport 11 Zoners are not going to care because they already suffer high losses because of Nomads. They can not afford having another enemy in the region.

And if we don't start getting rid of this illogical precedent, then the Zoners around FP11 will soon be surrounded by hostile factions. Because really, it is doubtful that the Core is going to ignore indie Zoners farming and carrying Nomad remains without their consent.

[Garrett Jax]

Well, I'm not going to argue with you guys about it, other than to say that the hostile actions between Order and Phoenix with TAZ and Zoner Indies and a Zoner POB was enough to warrant the rephack we implemented. You may not like it, and that's fine. You don't have to. But, it's what it is, and it won't change no matter how bad you personally think the decision is. The parties involved know how to fix it, and when they choose to do so, we will take steps to restore diplomacy to what it was.

---

[Sabru]

The Order acted against TAZ and Zoner indies, not just one faction.
Personally, I love how some of you go off on us over this when none of you were involved in the powergaming/metagaming going on, the ID violations and the legitimate cries of complaint from players who expected factions to behave according to their IDs.

i wont go on a long explanation, because its fairly in the past but i will say this, as being one of the main players involved in most of it.

If you folks knew even half of what happened, who exactly was involved and how they were involved.... well you'd be singing different tunes about this.Garrett is entirely correct.

@LordVipex incorrect my dear yellow. in actual fact, shenanigans involving certain members of phoenix who were quite involved in the Order's anti-zoner actions helped contribute to this, and also to Phoenix's de-officialing as seen here. there were also some conflict between OSI and the Order as well, if i remember correctly.

---

[Fluffyball]

I think it harms both Zoner and Order indies, because they are more like "WTF IS THIS BUG?"

I mean, come on. We get that official factions are influencing all the indies, but rephacking Zoners and Order against each other was flushing baby with the bath. Why no individual rephacks on all x tagged vessels had taken place?

---

User was banned for: http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=138636
Time left: (Permanent)

[Moberg]

The Omicron Zoners can be lucky then that having another enemy or not in an already very hostile environment depends entirely on a group with different relations and interests on the other side of the sector. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Especially considering that his is not only problematic on the lore side, but also harming gameplay, as plenty of others mentioned.

[Garrett Jax]

Then I suggest you spend your time and energy convincing faction leaders to fix this, because the admins aren't going to do anything until they do.

---

[Moberg]

What if we instead give TAZ their own IFF and rephack TAZ and Order IFF and ID hostile to each other, respectively? The custom IFFs are a perfect solution for situations like this.