Making snubs more appealing

[Chuba]

Battleships shouldn't damage snubs. Nerf battleships

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[Sciamach]

Fighters should be kept as far away from Capitals as possible in terms of damaging potential. Hell Fighters should be barely scratching capital shields, and perhaps only being a small but dealable threat against Gunboats. Bombers should be the only snub that is capable of hurting capitals hard. The issue is that Bomber combat is really boring and time consuming, and needs to be made more dynamic and fun.

This as well.

Snubs have no business being able to harm capital vessels. Gunboats are a /maybe/, but otherwise; No.
Bombers should be specialized anti-capital snubs that are the only answer to capitals for snub pilots.

FUTURE SCOURGIE EDIT: I'm going to retroactively change something here. Snubs /should/ be able to damage capitals, but not anywhere near to the degree that is presently presented. 5 snubs hammering away should be able to eventually down a shield of a dread, but the effort required to do so should roughly equate to the effort required for a group of caps to chase a snub: That is to say: it's painful and arduous to do, but if you want that blue, you've gotta work for it.


Also: Wesker also brings up the point of CD's endlessly being used to pin capitals in place-- and while Wesker's solution /might/ work, I don't see it as the best solution for the problem.

To speculate-- coming up with a divide between anti-snub CDs and anti-Capital CDs might be a more adviseable option-- wherein bombers are the only ones capable of mounting anti-capital CDs and snubs remaining where they are versus other snubs.

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[ sci·am·ach ]
/sīˈamək/

A simple, angry man casually working his way through life on a personal quest to acquire copious amounts of street cred.

[Mephistoles]

Also, it should be clear that the people who think snubs should do zero damage to caps should be ignored. They want an invincibility button. There should be no such thing.

If four people go up against one, those four should at least have the option of victory if they are good enough, regardless of what big shiny battleship that one is flying.

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Sigma & GMG Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/d4j3W4v

[Yber]

So you want to make VHFs a utility class that CDs things while gunboats shoot at caps and gunboats kill them.

Lol.

So many levels of dumb.

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inb4 Sirius gets renamed to XTF.

[Epo]

Personally I don't fly snubs because my eyesight is rapidly getting worse and I haven't got the best reflexes. Couple that with the fact that snub fights tend to last SO GODS DAMNED LONG and I just have no desire to spend half an hour endlessly jousting back and forth only to die to a single mine. It's not fun. Flying snubs to the uninitiated just isn't fun when someone with a slightly higher level of skill just can't be killed by anyone lesser.

It's a skillgap. Yeah, I'll freely admit that I need to "get good" but I don't have the time or patience for something so monotonously boring. And even if I did, i'd likely do it in another, more rewarding game.


Now, to end on a more productive note: The issue here is one of balance and the way it's done. The problem we face is one that several other games tend to come across-- but rather than sit here and utterly fail to convey my point, I'll let the experts at Extra Credits handle the job for me. I strongly advise everyone in the balance team give this video a look.


What we have right now in Disco is the scenario mentioned with the "noobtube", and the lack thereof. "You'd instead have a small community of veterans just churning through new players at an alarming rate--Just crushing each noob who dared to show their face in multiplayer. All of those new players would quickly get discouraged and quit."

That scenario sound familiar to anyone? Cos it certainly does for me.

I recall a time when Missiles were there to level the playing field, but someone probably suffering from terminal brain bad decided that such an item needed to go out the window for some utterly contrived reason. This kind of diachotomy is what we need back for snubs to actually be entertaining to the un-initiated again.

Good luck.

Fighters should be kept as far away from Capitals as possible in terms of damaging potential. Hell Fighters should be barely scratching capital shields, and perhaps only being a small but dealable threat against Gunboats. Bombers should be the only snub that is capable of hurting capitals hard. The issue is that Bomber combat is really boring and time consuming, and needs to be made more dynamic and fun.

+1 from me

[Ramke]

There is a massive skill barrier that you simply can not remove. New players will get absolutely demolished every single time unless they start practicing for a LOOOOONG while until they can actually put up a fight to experienced players. A really big time investment nobody finds appealing anymore, just to be able to play on the same level. I don't see a way you can circumvent this, sadly. Especially if the experienced players shieldrun so you literally can not win as the rare times you take out the shield doesn't even give you an opportunity to do good damage.

Turret zoom/steer is really negative, have to agree with Yber. Turret zoom/steer makes it so much more difficult vs caps. Snubs are absolutely useless against gunboats that have knowledge on how to play unless you have 3-5 players on one (to be fair, gunboats are immune to practically anything except other gunboats as caps can't hit them and snubs can't tank their rapid, fast velocity fire).

-LFs are rarely ever used. I don't even know how to use them. They just die to mines and that's it. Their damage is rather low as well. There's just no reason to use it over the other classes.
-HFs are mine magnets as well, 70% of flying a HF is just dodging mines because they'll instantly nuke 95% of your health, or all of it if you dared to have unrepaired damage in a fight.
-VHFs are really the easiest to fly since they allow mistakes and have great firepower.
-Light bombers pose -SOME- danger to everything, I find them really fun to fly until I encounter shieldrunners. They are absolutely worthless against armoured transports, it takes very long to kill one that is firing back and moving to the point where they'll reach safety anyway and are able to fly like 40-80k distance on thruster.
-Heavy bombers I don't know about, they die easily to everything and I'm not sure if their power core is worth that downside.

I think doing something about mines (either nerfing them to the point where they don't 1-shot certain ships or altering them in some other way) would be a step in the right direction. Since turret stuff won't be touched I have nothing to add about caps. Fighters shouldn't be able to damage them except gunboats at a fair rate, though. I'd honestly love to see LFs more.. useable and not an instant suicide.

And yes, I'm speaking from the sa-lty (mostly) average pvp skill player side here.

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[Sciamach]

Also, it should be clear that the people who think snubs should do zero damage to caps should be ignored. They want an invincibility button. There should be no such thing.

If four people go up against one, those four should at least have the option of victory if they are good enough, regardless of what big shiny battleship that one is flying.

Please go try to kill a snub with a battleship.

There's the current invincibility button. So by your own logic, there should be no such thing.

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[ sci·am·ach ]
/sīˈamək/

A simple, angry man casually working his way through life on a personal quest to acquire copious amounts of street cred.

[pillow]

The ships are fine.
The equipment isn't.
Hypothetical scenario: Liberty and Kusari war. Navy Sabre with Debs and Vengeance meets Naval Forces Sabre with Debs and Sunfrenzies.
Copy-pasting guns from one house to the other isn't something I'd call fun.

Felt like doing another mini-rant. This thread isn't for that so I'm just going to agree with Meph and Chuba.

[Epo]

I think doing something about mines (either nerfing them to the point where they don't 1-shot certain ships or altering them in some other way) would be a step in the right direction. I'd honestly love to see LFs more.. useable and not a suicide instantly.

Also this, maybe reducing amount of mines in ship would be a good idea - just to 10 or maybe 5. Or removing them, but people won't agree on completely removing them. But yes, it's something annoying when you hit one mine and it takes away 80% of your hull if you are not focusing on avoiding them.

And yes, I know I will need to spend 100000000 hours of my free time to get better and I will, one day.

[Shiki]

Why fighters should not damage caps? Lorewise they can, in vanilla they can and doing it great, anyways you need like minimum 3-5 fighters and a long time to kill a cap. If cap has a cerbs or razors one misstake will likely cost a life. You saying it is impossible to kill a snub in a battleship? 1v1 battleship have a better chances to kill a snub I assume.

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