Quote:- Rheinland Battlecruiser added, purchasable at Alster Shipyard
It's a start. But that dosn't realy compensates the last few ruined patches. Seriously. I suggest to form a new balance team, but with people who aren't pure snub friends, some who have real experiences with caps. This should be less painful for all. Else you will have to get used to the negative feedback in future every time after a "balance patch" comes out.
You don't even know what I fly, and Dii is a very seasoned cap pilot. Both of us endorse these changes.
As for the video, yes, I can see the worth of cerbs against a FULL CERB VALOR MOUNTING PULSES. If you want to do an actual demonstration to convince me, put prims in your prim slots and use those along with the other heavies you have available, see if you can kite that thing down at range. You should be able to, that's the way it was done before either of you ever flew on Discovery.
If not, that's a problem with the players or in this case with the two of you being experienced pilots, a problem with the ship.
Furthermore as we move caps more towards broadside combat, this silly max range kiting business will become less and less important.
I'd like to get some of the old cap aces in here too like Seth Karlo and see what they make of the whole thing. I have no doubts he'd be able to trash a heavy with a slimmer battleship using prims and gawk at your dependence on cerbs, but who knows, maybe I'm just nuts.
(12-19-2015, 05:44 AM)Wesker Wrote: and you can see just how much the dunkirk relies on its range with cerbs to deal damage to me.
From the video there is nothing new that players using light/medium BB already don't know. If anything your video just proved how strong cerberus are currently on heavy ships which can maintain to fire more than 2 unlimited and depend on them. Dunkirk can mount and fire backward only 2, while you could fire 3-4 at it. What does make a notice is the fact you ended up at approximately 20%(1'080'000) Hit Points, which is not a surprise considering the overall 5'400'000 vs 3'200'000. Your video presents the fact that medium battleships do have a chance to damage heavy battleships and nearly destroy them at this range.
Now why don't you do the same test with full primaries (both ships) (+/- 1 pulse) - which is a setup that we all gonna use after the update. Maintain max distance as possible of 2.8-2.9k and lets see how many hits you can both land to each other. Without cerberus I am sure the duel would last longer and due to the 800 ms of primaries landing hits would be easier. If you try using chain-fire for better efficiency and hit chance it would be a better example of medium vs heavy BB.
(12-19-2015, 05:44 AM)Wesker Wrote: Cerbs as they are (in my personal opinion) are fine as they are.
Cerbs as they are, are fine for players using heavy battleships that can double their usefulness due to the heavy power cores of their ships. Light/Medium battleship have max 2 cerberus mounted in order not to break their power core, while Heavy BBs can mount 4, fire properly 2 on top of primaries. The projectiles you can "deploy" would be far more than those "deployed" by the light/medium BBs which leads the heavy BB to score more hits on its target, while light/medium BB have to aim properly, shoot less - and overall land less hits. (That could be noticed from your video)
Cerberus on Heavy BB works best due to the power core, while that is not so in light/medium BBs, due to their lower core. Without cerbs the punch of heavy BB wont be so noticeable because nearly all BB are balanced to carry 4-6 primaries and shoot max 4 (few had 5?) at certain sides. That is leading to balance of powers where, in theory - 4 primaries will have to out damage other 4 primaries - where the skill of the player will decide the hit counts and the outcome. In this scenario the heavy BB will have one advantage - more armor/hit points and disadvantage - bigger hitbox. Light/mediums will have advantage of little hitbox and disadvantage of little armor/hit points.
In theory if 1 Medium and 1 Heavy BB shoot from 2k range without moving with only 4 primaries - the Heavy BB will overpower the Medium one only due to its armor/hit points. Now - if you add 2 cerbs on both of them and repeat - the heavy BB will obliterate the medium BB simply because of its massive power core which will allow it to "deploy" far more shots for little time on top of the superior armor.
So if you are following my explanation you will end up with the same conclusion that the balance of power between BBs currently, lies down to the number of Cerberus they can maintain during a fight. That is an issue and could be handled with this nerf because then you would have to use primaries, which are mostly balanced in terms of efficiency and deliver nearly same ammout of damage in their class.
@Durandal +1 to what you said. I know Hidamari for a very long time and I am sure (if he is part of these nerf decisions) he would never make light/medium battleships obsolete for he was one of these guys to prefer them above heavies.
(12-19-2015, 09:18 AM)Durandal Wrote: As for the video, yes, I can see the worth of cerbs against a FULL CERB VALOR MOUNTING PULSES.
Exactly why Valor is "best" BB in the mod cuz it can go full cerberus, support of pulses, forward gun and...core to support all that. That is why so many players are whining due to the loss of their overpowered cerberus in first place, which is good move forward to "nerf" valor a little and bring back on the line the light/medium BBs from the corners.
You pretty much made a summary with the words - "dependence on cerbs". Some ships like valor depend on them, that's a problem and that is why so many players are afraid to lose that "power".
Good cap players will adapt to these changes, while cerbs depended will suffer most - which without being rude would say is good move, from balance point of view.
I am fine with this nerf because it was needed. Battleship with Cerberus loadout can stay at 3k or 3.5k range and strafe+rightclick untill enemy capital ship die, I can't see any tactic here nor skill.
(12-19-2015, 02:50 AM)Wesker Wrote: A ransuer decloaking on a mako will win
A legate decloaking on an osiris will win
A marduk decloaking on any light BS will win.
A arbiter decloaking on a lib dread will win.
This makes the valor once again the most powerful battleship.
A kusari BS decloaking on a Dragon BS will kill it.
You might as well delete all light/medium battleships.
Wesker, I can't believe you said that. It is already happening and it will happen after this update. Cloakers always have more chance to destroy victim.
(12-19-2015, 05:51 AM)Black Jack Wrote: Go against me man. We can fight.
(12-19-2015, 05:52 AM)Wesker Wrote: Head to conn
What the f?
It is already easy to kill Light Battleships with Heavy Battleships because of Cerberus turrets, like I said 3k range and strafe+right click untill hostile capital ship go down.
Hoooo boy people in this community do like to whine holy god.
Get oveeeeer yourselves, there are much more important things to worry about in life than some slight changes to your pretty little digital light beams.
Does this change cripple pvp on disco? No.
Does it mean you have to reevaluate your tactics a little and be less of a mong to people? Oh it does!? Too bad, adapt and win, don't and lose.
I'm glad I barely play this game anymore. Ya'll too serious about pixels.
(12-19-2015, 02:27 AM)jide Wrote: keep calm! lets try it! whine about it later! Arguing right now is worthless. Keep in mind its not "final" and cerbs nerfs will be review and buffed back by devs if needed.
Jumping to fast to conclusion only tear us apparts and often make a thread become "war ground" between users!.
this guy right here.
Everyone just chill your tits, the devs are trying to add more variety, you haven't even tested the changes yet and you go on showing your opinions and claiming that they are superior than the devs, they probably thought and took feedback months before this patch, and they might even expected this type of s a l t fest.
So just chill, you wanted longer fights, you got them.