Player Sanctioned: Kruger|KMS-Kotzen

[Shinju]

Kruger|KMS-Kotzen has been sanctioned for:

1.3 Every player must have one ID equipped on their ship. Player should follow the restrictions and allowances listed in their ID and their roleplay and conduct must match the actions of their characters. In cases where these restrictions and allowances conflict with the server rules, the ID overrides the rules.

Consequences:

You ~attacked~ Cryer ship in Omicron Theta. BUT Rheinland isn't at war with Liberty so you had no reason to attack a specific Cryer transport.

Guns and credits are gone.

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Original Link for Admin/Mod Use | Discovery Server & Forums Rules | Before You Post Here

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If you post in this sanction and are not directly involved or a leader of the accused person's faction be advised that you are consenting to be subjected to the reprisal of my choice which may involve in game repercussions up to a ban. Blaming members of your immediate family, neighbours, friends, pets, and assorted Orcs, Trolls and any other legendary creatures may result in the use of Admin Right #CTE 750AE

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"No step on Snek..."

my english is my english!

[Kruger]

Please show me the post where the peace treaty is signed, than we accept this sanction.

PS: After information from translucent who is doing the rheinland government posts:
[17-2-2016 18:42:35] Gamer girl: Hello Translucent,

I wanted to know if there is some peace treaty signed already for liberty/rheinland? Or is it just negotiations for now still? At the moment i cannot follow it all anymore.
[17-2-2016 19:37:15] translucent-rabbit: Hi, this issue is kind of messy now because roleplay is unfortunately behind lore in this case. inRP we are currently finishing the peace negotiations and are about to sign peace treaty, hopefully at the end of this month at the latest. So inRP there is formally still just ceasefire between us. However ooRPly the peace between Rheinland and Liberty was already announced as part of changes introduced with Rheinland update at the beginning of January and the roleplay we now do is kind of retrospective action because it should have been finished like two months ago.
[17-2-2016 19:43:39] Gamer girl: Ok, thank you for the information. I still hate that the war ends or no other war comes in return for it. Because i fear rheinland will become stale at some point. Just hope i am wrong.
[17-2-2016 19:53:02] translucent-rabbit: The war is in fact over for like a year (cease-fire was accepted in August and the end of war was announced even several months before that) and Rheinland didn´t die so far, so it should not be fatal. But of course it could be better with more enemies. Paradoxically, it was Liberty who lost some official factions in last few months, not us.

I have doubts about the validity of this sanction. As far as roleplay is concearned the peace treaty has not been reached and it is only a ceasefire and occasional shots do know to get fired.

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[Remnant]

Checked in with the Developers to be sure. Rheinland and Liberty are currently holding a ceasefire. (By definition, people do 'not' attack each other during a ceasefire)
Feel free to inquire with the team yourself.

Things have been like this for a long time, I find it rather odd that you're surprised by this.

[Kruger]

There is a ceasefire in the ukraine and Syria. But that doesn't stop people from shooting at each other until the peace has been reached. That's how the war work.

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[Remnant]

Just in case you didn't read up on the definition of ceasefire.

Let's take a look at your ID text.

* - Can attack ships belonging to houses or organizations considered hostile by Rheinland within their Zone of Influence.
* - Can engage in piracy against corporations affiliated with houses at war with Rheinland anywhere.

If the house of Rhienland currently is in a state where they do not fight with the house of Liberty, or their cooperations - That means they are no longer hostile. They are currently in a state of negotiation. Far enough to the point to invoke not shooting the house they are working with.

Is there any more confusion?

[Kruger]

Let's take a look at your ID text.

* - Can attack ships belonging to houses or organizations considered hostile by Rheinland within their Zone of Influence.
* - Can engage in piracy against corporations affiliated with houses at war with Rheinland anywhere.

The peace has not been reached, if i play on a ship that can pirate someone. Some factions treat me as hostile already and ask me to leave or they open fire. I do not mention names, but it is exactly the same, while the iff/ids are not rephacked or are hostile at all.

The cease fire is the main idea, but there are always revolutionists. Or people opposing it, for people who have business that might suffer with the lack of war. Or corporations that can have a negative influence on the outcome of a war. Cryer works with GMG to hunt Kruger ships in sigma's so for Kruger the line could even apply too for self defense of own ships.

To add:

§3. All Liberty-affiliated military units are to be eliminated on sight.

Space within systems not mentioned here but is otherwise a part of Liberty and not available for lease. This would include systems such as Virginia and Illinois, but also the systems of New Hampshire, due to our state of war with Rheinland, and Magellan due to the overflow of the conflict with Gallia.

[/indent]

If vessels belonging to groups that the Republic of Liberty considers hostile, such as the Liberty Rogues or the Rheinland military, use your base, you will be liable for any consequences that follow. It is your responsibility to make sure that you do not provide safe harbour for criminals and parties that the Republic is at war with. Failure to do falls under obstructing the course of justice, as described in Section One.

I. Hostile Combatants

The following factions, entities, and groups are identified as being agents operating under the auspices of a government of a House with which the Republic of Liberty is at war. They are valid combat targets and are to be destroyed on sight by the forces of Liberty:
[indent]- Rheinland Military (RM)
- Rheinland Federal Police (RFP)
- Marinenachrichtendienst (MND)
- Gallic Royal Navy (GRN)
- Gallic Royal Police (GRP)

II. Hostile Corporations

Due to the state of war with [color=#FF0000]Rheinland, the following corporations are banned from Liberty house space:
[indent]- Daumann Heavy Construction
- Republican Shipping
- Kruger Minerals

The laws say it all..

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[DiscoveryGC Admins]

Congratulations are in order. You have triumphed where many failed.
As a matter of fact, I don't even know where to begin to describe how upset I am with you right now.

It takes a serious level of absolute apathy to try to justify your way out of a sanction by referencing terrible real life events. I'm sure our Syrian players on Disco are fine with you referencing the fragile ceasefire in place in their country forged on hundred of deaths. I'm also sure our Ukrainian players absolutely loved the reference to their land as well.

Back to the sanction, it is extremely simple to understand. There's a ceasefire in place between Liberty and Rheinland. That means they are not actively at war anymore and certainly mean the Bundestag would not be keen on seeing Kruger responsible for failing the peace negociations, same goes for Cryer and Liberty.

What does your ID state again? "Can engage in piracy against corporations affiliated with houses at war with Rheinland anywhere". Please explain to me what is difficult to understand in this. Not at war = NO KILL.

Cryer falls under the exact same rule, straight from their ID: "Can attack ships belonging to houses or organisations considered hostile by Liberty within their Zone of Influence.", and that is if we consider you were not carrying cargo belonging to the following exemption: "Can demand Cardamine or Human Organs from any ships that are not affiliated with house police or military forces and attack if they refuse to comply."

Assuming there is no exemption, Cryer is not allowed to attack you, and you are not allowed to attack Cryer. If you believe Cryer and by extension Wisp players are actively going against their ID rules or attempting to circumvent them, you do not do justice yourself. You fill a violation report and you let -us- handle it. We have all the server logs and submitted evidence at our disposal to provide a fair judgement based on solid ground.

You're free to try to work your way out by attempting to justify there is no real ceasefire, but there is. The Development and Administration teams are not responsible for the members of the Bundestag and Liberty Government being more than 6 months late in proceeding to the required roleplay for the situation to evolve, to the point it even became a problem for the Development team to make progress on this side of the mod story without potentially creating continuity issues. We will process ID violation reports according to the context presented by the mod. This is a context you are very much are aware of, thanks to this skype quote from your own post:

[17-2-2016 19:37:15] translucent-rabbit: Hi, this issue is kind of messy now because roleplay is unfortunately behind lore in this case.

Shame on you. That is all.

[Kruger]

What does your ID state again? "Can engage in piracy against corporations affiliated with houses at war with Rheinland anywhere". Please explain to me what is difficult to understand in this. Not at war = NO KILL.

If this was done with a indy id, no one would have bothered, but because a official id did do this makes it a problem. If someone do not read all the stories, they just read the laws. By laws and RP these lines are there. Admins/Mods can EDIT these lines or make them a color so it is changed for players to know. Now it is all very shallow and a gray area, you must agree on that. Peace negotiations would not be a problem, since it happens in the Sigma's and by laws they all say it is outside of house space. Even if things happen within Rheinland itself, actions are taken in advantage of the general lore where it even hurts a faction as kruger. Cryer can even put it on the line to help defending their allies and shoot kruger in sigma's as they did with several huntings this is a brief part of it.

Im sorry i talked about rl wars, they are very bad and cause a lot of trouble and sorrow over the world. But for me it was a comparison and some factions are based on certain comparisons too. If i did hurt anyone with it, im sorry for that.

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[Remnant]

We've been clear with you. Going even as far as to describe why we've come to our decision.
We do not require you to accept the sanction. You don't have much of a choice in the matter. It's been made abundantly clear after we briefly discussed this a second time, that there isn't any reason to revert the punishment.

We have made it clear that it's not acceptable to do what you did.
Learn from this, and don't let it happen again.

Bottom line, end of story.