Quote:Civilian weapons are crap. As a result a war machine seeking perfection would reject them. Whats wrong with salvaged guns. We have no "Mine is better than your bias" we have only a mathmatical and statistical review of our weapons, thus we pick what works and whats available. Salvage is alway available, thats why a you salvage it.
Honestly, I really dislike this situation. If Harvesters are exempt from equipment/ship rulings, then that's unfair.
Let's say I want to make an Outcast. This man is only considered an Outcast, due to his addiction to cardamine and friendship with certain Outcast families. He isn't a proud Maltanese pilot or anything, just a low-life scum addicted to the drug.
Since the Bounty Hunter Gunship is on sale, he wants one. Outcast weapons? Nah, he isn't proud nor does he have a "Mine is better than yours". He goes for anything that is effective, as he just wants to be able to defend Malta (for credits) with great efficiency. Let's give him Order turrets. He knows they can be sold from arms dealers, so his gunship now has them.
In the end, we have an Outcast tagged mercenary with Order turrets and a Bounty Hunter Gunship. The mere sight of him would provoke many a violation report from other players.
' Wrote:Honestly, I really dislike this situation. If Harvesters are exempt from equipment/ship rulings, then that's unfair.
Let's say I want to make an Outcast. This man is only considered an Outcast, due to his addiction to cardamine and friendship with certain Outcast families. He isn't a proud Maltanese pilot or anything, just a low-life scum addicted to the drug.
Since the Bounty Hunter Gunship is on sale, he wants one. Outcast weapons? Nah, he isn't proud nor does he have a "Mine is better than yours". He goes for anything that is effective, as he just wants to be able to defend Malta (for credits) with great efficiency. Let's give him Order turrets. He knows they can be sold from arms dealers, so his gunship now has them.
In the end, we have an Outcast tagged mercenary with Order turrets and a Bounty Hunter Gunship. The mere sight of him would provoke many a violation report from other players.
Yep. RP must fit server rules, no ifs ands or buts. Civilian weapons are NOT crap, they just aren't overpowered compared to most.
The RP is good, but the equipment leaves something to be desired here and there. Stick to Corsair and Zoner stuff, you've already got access to the best weapons in the game...
Trying to say "hey guys, we are free of the normal bias that keeps PvP manageable" is similar to saying "my merc doesn't care, he just wants to win," in fact its the same thing with the word "machine" replacing "merc." Its sanctionable, don't do it. Find stuff that goes along with your alliance with the Corsairs and your status of ex-Zoner factory stuff. Really, that already gives you access to the best stuff in the game...
I have to agree with both Robert and Sovereign, you cant just use the excuse that your machines to use any weapon ingame.
Your not even an official faction and your asking for your own ship line, your own system, better ships, your own ID, it took the factions that do have these things alot of time on the server before they got them and with that those factions have to endure alot of admin scrutiny which the Harvesters don't seem to have, you have a massive ZoI and by the looks of it fly whatever you want (which is the best of everything as your machines as you've said before).
Another thing I would like to bring up is the Corsair alliance quite a few people seem to be talking about, now as far as I know there is none, you are allied to one Corsair faction which is not even official yet I believe, and I know the Brotherhood looks down on this alliance as quite shady, at the start you where attacking Zoners and Im pretty sure the Corsair elders would not jeopardize there neutrality with them by allieing with unpredictable machines even if they have promised to destroy the Outcasts which I doubt they would trust you would do that so I don't think being neutral with the Corsairs official factions would gain you access to our ships.
The main sticking point for me though is your reluctance to reduce your cap fleet at all not even the biggest military factions on this server have a fleet your size. A faction full of caps and a ZoI the size you have with the ability to attack anyone of your choosing is bound to make people abit jumpy and you wont budge on the subject at all.
Also I would like to point out that this is not a flame at you or your faction, just because someone doesn't agree with you it doesn't make it one either, most of the posts here are bringing up concerns we have with this faction not flaming you for no reason.
As it stands I would say no to this faction becoming an official faction.
To get a yes from me you would have to outnumber your caps with fighters and bombers (like every other faction is expected to do) and use weapons that you should not any you find.
' Wrote:Honestly, I really dislike this situation. If Harvesters are exempt from equipment/ship rulings, then that's unfair.
Let's say I want to make an Outcast. This man is only considered an Outcast, due to his addiction to cardamine and friendship with certain Outcast families. He isn't a proud Maltanese pilot or anything, just a low-life scum addicted to the drug.
Since the Bounty Hunter Gunship is on sale, he wants one. Outcast weapons? Nah, he isn't proud nor does he have a "Mine is better than yours". He goes for anything that is effective, as he just wants to be able to defend Malta (for credits) with great efficiency. Let's give him Order turrets. He knows they can be sold from arms dealers, so his gunship now has them.
In the end, we have an Outcast tagged mercenary with Order turrets and a Bounty Hunter Gunship. The mere sight of him would provoke many a violation report from other players.
I see what your saying. However if your seriously were roleplaying this I'd personly say fine if you can tell me how you got the ship. Well traveled characters are going to bare the mark of thier travels. Like when I came back from sea I brought a Pursain rug, chinese silks, arabian gold, and thailand jade. I was in RP because I accually did it. I dont think our characters should be unrealistically restricted.
Heck even Americans get Cuban cigars which are illegal, regularly. Are there no black market weapons?
Us being machines by passes many of these obsticles, the balance is that we have nearly everyone shooting at us and have no safe space to travel.
' Wrote:Yep. RP must fit server rules, no ifs ands or buts. Civilian weapons are NOT crap, they just aren't overpowered compared to most.
The RP is good, but the equipment leaves something to be desired here and there. Stick to Corsair and Zoner stuff, you've already got access to the best weapons in the game...
Trying to say "hey guys, we are free of the normal bias that keeps PvP manageable" is similar to saying "my merc doesn't care, he just wants to win," in fact its the same thing with the word "machine" replacing "merc." Its sanctionable, don't do it. Find stuff that goes along with your alliance with the Corsairs and your status of ex-Zoner factory stuff. Really, that already gives you access to the best stuff in the game...
We are not allowed to use Zoner guns.
And I realize that the Corsairs and Zoners may have the best stuff in the game thats why in my original post there are no Corsair and Zoner ships. I already get accused of power gameing so I am very aware of this fact. Civilian weapons are crap:PAlthough IMG and GMG have good lines (my favorite)
Whats over powered are the codes but they are ment to be. However those are on every fighter or bomber I have ever faced. In fact I dare say a fighter in most factions is not set up till it has codenames on it. Those should be even more restricted then cap ships. In stead of makeing more class 10s we should restrict those around.
I went to the BHG cause I thought the last thing it would be called is overpowered. Now we are moveing to the hand bag but I warn you that thing is almost a Talarca.
The Prefect.......well ya'll asked for it. I thought too big plus too iconistic of Corsair.(same reason I left the OC destroyer alone even though its Homeworld based)
Thanks Soveriegn always respectfull even though you often disagree. Hit me again if you see anything you question.
' Wrote:I have to agree with both Robert and Sovereign, you cant just use the excuse that your machines to use any weapon ingame.
Your not even an official faction and your asking for your own ship line, your own system, better ships, your own ID, it took the factions that do have these things alot of time on the server before they got them and with that those factions have to endure alot of admin scrutiny which the Harvesters don't seem to have, you have a massive ZoI and by the looks of it fly whatever you want (which is the best of everything as your machines as you've said before).
Another thing I would like to bring up is the Corsair alliance quite a few people seem to be talking about, now as far as I know there is none, you are allied to one Corsair faction which is not even official yet I believe, and I know the Brotherhood looks down on this alliance as quite shady, at the start you where attacking Zoners and Im pretty sure the Corsair elders would not jeopardize there neutrality with them by allieing with unpredictable machines even if they have promised to destroy the Outcasts which I doubt they would trust you would do that so I don't think being neutral with the Corsairs official factions would gain you access to our ships.
The main sticking point for me though is your reluctance to reduce your cap fleet at all not even the biggest military factions on this server have a fleet your size. A faction full of caps and a ZoI the size you have with the ability to attack anyone of your choosing is bound to make people abit jumpy and you wont budge on the subject at all.
Also I would like to point out that this is not a flame at you or your faction, just because someone doesn't agree with you it doesn't make it one either, most of the posts here are bringing up concerns we have with this faction not flaming you for no reason.
As it stands I would say no to this faction becoming an official faction.
To get a yes from me you would have to outnumber your caps with fighters and bombers (like every other faction is expected to do) and use weapons that you should not any you find.
I dont see this as a flame at all but a real honest to god view point that seems to lack emotion just you reasoning to me. Thats cool.
Yes we are standing solid on our cap fleet. Its how we do things. I have looked and seen no rules stateing that the fighters must outnumber cap ships. This is a self imposed limitation we are not willing to make.
We use strike craft as just that. The fighters dont come out unless we are gunning for someone. The next thing us being in criusers mostly protects all your traders as we are not allowed pirate trade vessels even the ones who agree. Next we strike mostly in self defence so most folks who have not made a hobbie out of killing us.
What you say about the Corsairs is 100% true. I agree. Thats why I made the ship choices I originally made. However, this did get alot of scrutiny(as exspected) and, little support. So, now we move to Corsair ships out of RL forum diplomacy, not RP. Plus the bulk of our fighters will be getting new designations other than Harvester, to Guard.
The admin has been very busy but I've been makeing sure its not forgoten.
Isent to Igiss all our data, members, backstory, ship list, the works twice if not thrice and this is the responce.
Just for everyones FYI. Doesnt mean we are approved but it lets us know that they are watching.
Hopefully this at least means a sit down with the powers that be on scyp or PMs and get it ironed out at somepoint.
The words of Igiss.................................................................................................................................
Hello,
I'm sorry for very late replies. There are several factions who are seeking for home system right now, and even more waiting for admin approval. Most address me for help, not other admins, and I can't say that I'm less busy than any of them.
Basically, I think your faction idea can be approved, but I can't guarantee a home system for you (definitely not in this version), and I can assure you that a custom faction for this concept will not be created, save for some neutral "guardians".
If the faction idea will be successful and you'll have many followers (and involvement into the current RP), we could probably make a custom ship for you, and a custom guardian faction. But not in the next version, and not in near future. That's all I can say right now.
Please beware that I can't reply all e-mails and PMs I'm receiving. Refer to this thread if you wish to appeal for any admin decision. PM or mail me personally only in exceptional cases when other admins were unable to help you, or forwarded your issue to me. For e-mails, use only igissmail@gmail.com, not igiss@msn.com. If you did not get a reply from me when expected, don't hezitate to re-send your message.
..........................................................................................................................................................
I just want to bring up a point on efficiency.
Cruisers cost around 74 million to build, their armour at least 250 more(assuming a cap 6)
Fighters cost about 2 million, their armour at most 15 more.
So, a single cruiser costs roughly 324 million credits to equip, which is about 19 fighters, without factoring weapons in.
I am going to argue now, that the use of the talarca is horribly inefficient, when four fighters can do much the same, and cost much less to produce. the 15 other fighters could be deployed to other sectors to do much the same, giving you both more area coverage and combat ability. Though, of course, you've not got enough players to field the 19 fighters, but then, neither is the RM, and we pretend they do, in our RP. We might extend you that same courtesy.
A machine mind focusing on efficiency would not, I believe, field such an expensive piece of hardware as a cruiser, especially since a few fighters can be reasonably expected to take it. I expect the humans of sirius employ them because of an emotional attachment to the shock and awe they provide, and the fact that they provide a possible noneconomic benefit of providing support to the fighters, thus saving lives at the cost of funding.
I do not understand the foundation of the RP for a machine trying to maximize its efficiency employing such costly vessels.
' Wrote:I see what your saying. However if your seriously were roleplaying this I'd personly say fine if you can tell me how you got the ship. Well traveled characters are going to bare the mark of thier travels. Like when I came back from sea I brought a Pursain rug, chinese silks, arabian gold, and thailand jade. I was in RP because I accually did it. I dont think our characters should be unrealistically restricted.
Heck even Americans get Cuban cigars which are illegal, regularly. Are there no black market weapons?
Us being machines by passes many of these obsticles, the balance is that we have nearly everyone shooting at us and have no safe space to travel.
I understand your point of view Scorn, only it doesn't really work here.
If we did follow something along these lines, then no one would be sanctionable. Everyone would have an excuse for why they have the particular guns. More often than not, the people who do get sanctioned for having OORP guns/equipment are the ones who don't have any written down RP.
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
We often mention how this is a roleplay server, but I believe now we should mention this is also a game that tries to be balanced as demonstrated in the thousand blanace discussion.
Balance means fairness and however good a rp is, scorn, what exactly are your reason to get just the best of the best? just so you may kill everyone? Is being defeated in a pvp fight so unacceptable? I dont think you think this way, then I dont see the reason. Let's restrain ourselves to what we should have in order to keep the game fair to the other players.
' Wrote:I just want to bring up a point on efficiency.
Cruisers cost around 74 million to build, their armour at least 250 more(assuming a cap 6)
Fighters cost about 2 million, their armour at most 15 more.
So, a single cruiser costs roughly 324 million credits to equip, which is about 19 fighters, without factoring weapons in.
I am going to argue now, that the use of the talarca is horribly inefficient, when four fighters can do much the same, and cost much less to produce. the 15 other fighters could be deployed to other sectors to do much the same, giving you both more area coverage and combat ability. Though, of course, you've not got enough players to field the 19 fighters, but then, neither is the RM, and we pretend they do, in our RP. We might extend you that same courtesy.
A machine mind focusing on efficiency would not, I believe, field such an expensive piece of hardware as a cruiser, especially since a few fighters can be reasonably expected to take it. I expect the humans of sirius employ them because of an emotional attachment to the shock and awe they provide, and the fact that they provide a possible noneconomic benefit of providing support to the fighters, thus saving lives at the cost of funding.
I do not understand the foundation of the RP for a machine trying to maximize its efficiency employing such costly vessels.
We are not factoring economics, the same way Britonia does. I like the figures you made up useing game componets. They are well thought out. However they are manufactured by you thus one cannot argue econmonic points that are manufactured by you.
I can say, that we know fighters die faster, and the amount of fighters lost, would easily surpase the cost of our criusers. That coupled by the fact that criusers are able to do more lucridive missions against mundane enemies(NPC) for more profit, loot, and less repair cost. With that further enhanced by our self reliance, ww; dont require leave, food(well harvest are food argueably), air, sleep, no creature comfort required by mankind. Allows us to operate and build at a lower cost. No one has to be paid, no red tape, no need to pay the red tape handlers, its cheaper in this respect too. Theres no congress or government that will quibble ov er details, theres no m ix ups in disburseing. Every aspect from begining to end will be conducted by one untireing mind.
Fighters die faster and DO have to be replaced more often. Waste not want not, we pay the bigger bill for the better mission completed record. FIghters only serve for single mission deployment.
Now maybe we enjoy capwhoreing more than the average bomber whore but thats us since they seldom will fly in support of each other and are on at different times. When we are together we make a bolder move like attacking New Berlin.
Anyway a point of view definately worthy of a look.