' Wrote:I understand your point of view Scorn, only it doesn't really work here.
If we did follow something along these lines, then no one would be sanctionable. Everyone would have an excuse for why they have the particular guns. More often than not, the people who do get sanctioned for having OORP guns/equipment are the ones who don't have any written down RP.
Well what wrong with people haveing more choice and makeing this server bristle with ideas and colorful ships. I would even be ok with anyone on the forums can get exceptions ocer those who do not. Let anyone with more than a page of story to back thier claims or a platform to argue from have what ever can be reasoned from thier RP. If someone gives the time to write here, they should be given the same benefit of the doubt, we give to someone whose been around for ever to, not try to hoard popularity power here and warp things into a single stagnat view of thier world alone.
Yes buy my view the next person who comes along with an idea for Gammu ,we will just have have to devise a way to share it, unless they totally conflict and say Gammu suddenly emploded and now the new folks live in some singularity thingie that bounced out. I do not want to decide anyones fate, over a video game and i think it is a waste of our precious time trying to govern pixels. Yes let folks bend server rules with RP. If we disagree with the bent rules then we PM it or just have two parties have a situation arbitrated by the Admin. Not waste anytime in space with talking occ to get folks to say in character. Or telling folks they cant buy a ship there.
If they are noobs that are not even interested in being part of the greater game then they will stick out. And probally do something to get sanctioned. Remember we are all on the same team. Yes let RPers RP NO MATTER the DIVERSITY.
' Wrote:We often mention how this is a roleplay server, but I believe now we should mention this is also a game that tries to be balanced as demonstrated in the thousand blanace discussion.
Balance means fairness and however good a rp is, scorn, what exactly are your reason to get just the best of the best? just so you may kill everyone? Is being defeated in a pvp fight so unacceptable? I dont think you think this way, then I dont see the reason. Let's restrain ourselves to what we should have in order to keep the game fair to the other players.
There is no competetion, so there is no fairness to be worried over in PVP. You know personally that I dont care if I lose, you've flown with me. Others know I ve planned to lose events, for the sake of story. i want to be somewhat of a villian, and villians have to have redefeatablity, we are self replicateing practice drones.
I didn't think I was grabbing the best of the best. You can ask Dusty Lens, know nothing about hit boxes and shield bubbles, well now i do, but I had no idea I was picking the bad ass ships, good eye I guess. I accually thought I was picking underused ships, everytime. They became more populare afterward. I noticed this with Zoner dessies, Talarcas ( though I first saw Mal in one), BHG-1, the only one that didnt catch on was the Kith Sam Taaw SHF, (This is the most awesome fighter ever designed. Its Uber), The Liberty Assault Battle Criuser, was not the case here. It was well used before we picked it. It was in the possesion of many of our foes and we have killed many. Well like in some other post I made I said we should a try to look like our enemy. We are what we eat.
So no ship choice i have ever made was to have the best i just picked what looked TO ME, as underused ships. Thats along with emotionless, and windowless hulls. No if they were crap they had to go but if reasonable to use then we kept them. I only wish I had added the Whale to our list, and still might if I can get folks to relax. We have caps a kill NPCs we are easily ignored, as we are not cops or robbers. Now some folk are our enemies they get messed with but no one flies with out someone have someone RP some RP law or TAX so interactions are exceptable and we let the folks setting up off the hook and ignore them. After all its just bad manners to shoot someone setting up.
Whats fair is that I be given the SAME and EXACT freedom and clean slate as the very first players. As in my steal it story deserves just as much credence as the first one that got excepted. Some how I exspect that many folk dictateing down to newer folk and makeing it harder had, an easier time of it then they are willing to believe.
I want fairness. i want the same clean slate the first player got and I deal with the rules the same way. Maybe not the exact rules they dealt with which may have been loser or tighter but, the clean slate I want that which makes my first "Stole My Ship" story just as valid as the first one writen here, and the only criteria should be plausablity. Not the ability to blow the socks off of every member here and make them gasp at my prowess. No, just some plausability and the ability to be polite to the community. ( not be disruptive jerk)
Well thats all but another good view to examine, hope this helps clarify my stance. hope no one feels offended in any way just speaking plainly.
Quote:We are not factoring economics, the same way Britonia does. I like the figures you made up useing game componets. They are well thought out. However they are manufactured by you thus one cannot argue econmonic points that are manufactured by you.
O_O
What...are...you...talking about?
Quote:Well what wrong with people haveing more choice and makeing this server bristle with ideas and colorful ships. I would even be ok with anyone on the forums can get exceptions ocer those who do not. Let anyone with more than a page of story to back thier claims or a platform to argue from have what ever can be reasoned from thier RP. If someone gives the time to write here, they should be given the same benefit of the doubt, we give to someone whose been around for ever to, not try to hoard popularity power here and warp things into a single stagnat view of thier world alone.
Yes buy my view the next person who comes along with an idea for Gammu ,we will just have have to devise a way to share it, unless they totally conflict and say Gammu suddenly emploded and now the new folks live in some singularity thingie that bounced out. I do not want to decide anyones fate, over a video game and i think it is a waste of our precious time trying to govern pixels. Yes let folks bend server rules with RP. If we disagree with the bent rules then we PM it or just have two parties have a situation arbitrated by the Admin. Not waste anytime in space with talking occ to get folks to say in character. Or telling folks they cant buy a ship there.
If they are noobs that are not even interested in being part of the greater game then they will stick out. And probally do something to get sanctioned. Remember we are all on the same team. Yes let RPers RP NO MATTER the DIVERSITY.
This has nothing to do with what I'm talking about...the people who get sanctioned are the ones WITHOUT the RP, Scorn...that's why your harvesters haven't been sanctioned yet...
I just have one thing to say, Scorn...Stop beating around the bush. We don't appreciate it.
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
[quote name='Unselie' date='May 8 2008, 09:21 PM' post='245456']
I just want to bring up a point on efficiency.
Cruisers cost around 74 million to build, their armour at least 250 more(assuming a cap 6)
Fighters cost about 2 million, their armour at most 15 more.
So, a single cruiser costs roughly 324 million credits to equip, which is about 19 fighters, without factoring weapons in.
This.
I just have one thing to say, Scorn...Stop beating around the bush. We don't appreciate it.
ScornStar, I know...you quoted that segment, it's obvious you're addressing Unselie's point.
What I want to know is what in the name of god do you mean by what you typed in response to her, because none of us can understand what you are talking about...
Manufactured by Unselie?
She can't use them in an argument?
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
So...basically what your saying here is 'this is my rp, and we have to accept it'? You have your version of the rules, and we have to put up with it? I dont think so mate. You had a good idea, but once you started stretching the rules it got out of hand.
Another point, the BHG-1 is one of the worst whored gbs, second only (imo) to the corsair gb. Same with the Lib BC. The only reason the Talarca isnt used more is its Kusari, and most consider it BD. Your ship list just reeks of being picked with PVP, not RP, in mind. I'm sorry, thats just the way it looks.
There is nothing worth living for, unless it is worth dying for. -Elizabeth Elliott
' Wrote:So...basically what your saying here is 'this is my rp, and we have to accept it'? You have your version of the rules, and we have to put up with it? I dont think so mate. You had a good idea, but once you started stretching the rules it got out of hand.
Another point, the BHG-1 is one of the worst whored gbs, second only (imo) to the corsair gb. Same with the Lib BC. The only reason the Talarca isnt used more is its Kusari, and most consider it BD. Your ship list just reeks of being picked with PVP, not RP, in mind. I'm sorry, thats just the way it looks.
Sorry, you see it that way but you sound emotionally charged. Nothing I could do to convince you other wise.
What would you have us do? Spell out your dream Harvesters.
I exspect that you just want us really to get discouraged and cease to be so, you can have good ole Freelancer with only the stuff your comfortable with. I exspect you want it to never change so, you never have to "up" your game. I also have not seen a speck of encouragement, guidence, or acknowledgement of our changes. These forums are littered with my appologies to other people who, I in fact thought, were be rude to me. So dont try and paint me as the uncomprimiseing.
You can believe what you want but, owning a gun doesn't make you a murderer. I dont keep up with crap like "The Most Whored Ship", with the exception of cap threads.:$Why would this even concern you? unless you have similar concerns. I dont think in PVP terms constantly, I think RP. Sorry I picked, I guess damn good ships. But I have moved now to the ships you folks told me. Hand bag instead of BHG-1, I have changed from LABC to Hessien criuser with approval of the RHA's leader; however so his rep doesn't suffer here, I am changeing to what the community said the Prefect. These are not even best for our RP, but the best ships were denied and these suggested. However Igiss didnt say anything about our ship list.
But I try to be a team player, you need to recognise we have been trying to bend over backwards from the begining. Everyday I have had to give something up. We are just asking for ships in return.
Out of hand? Are we running amok and just spoiling RP everywhere? I dont see anyones RP we have disrupted or hijacked. Even if we do peek in on your RP, its not like my characters dont get peeked in by all pirates, cops, militaries, and BHG. That is literaly everywhere. Ok but what we do is adapt and interact. We dont write ballads and trade insults we adjust tactics and hard ware. Dont worry since most cap ship weapons are up for grabs anyways its not like we can go terribly out of RP with them, and ships well they are just props. PVP is not the present thing on everyones mind. Furthermore, I'm not so low on the food chain that I'd lie about a video game to people I will never meet and who never will sign my checks. I am here for the RP.
If a Harvester EVER wrongs you PM me, I will give credits to comp the time and assests lost or a full explaination and if that dont work you can always report us. But until you try it you cannot tell yourself, your being fair, welcomeing, or open minded.
I can feel the heat rising here so I'll make my two cents real quick. And hope it will be taken as constructive criticism, and not a flame.
I know it must be annoying having people apparently attacking your faction proposal. You've put a lot into it and I personally enjoy seeing the harvesters in the game as it adds interesting variety.
Quote:I also have not seen a speck of encouragement, guidence, or acknowledgement of our changes.
Well you dropped the BH gunship so you've earned brownie points from me!
I hope there's a list of "Machine" vessels out there somewhere because I've started running into other "Harvesters" without the name. Automated mining vessels that act the idiot one minute, and then become all sophisticated on private comms once they are challenged and have to turn around. Are they all faction members? To be honest the "idiot" robot could become a little tired as it progresses. I mean even the robots on the planet in the omicrons are more eloquent. You do after all say:
Quote:Well what wrong with people having more choice and making this server bristle with ideas and colorful ships.
It doesn't exist here already? A lot of people put a lot of work into playing this game. As for imagination? How imaginatively or effectively can someone interact in RP with something that responds like a monosyllabic child?
Re the proposal: what have people got problems with?
Firstly; capships. Come on now, name any other faction that has as many cruisers? Of course RP can justify it; RP can justify anything. You seem determined not to yield. I dont think any faction with so many cap ships will get the nod. The OPG caused the same heckles to rise and they have done a superb job of balancing things out. I like seeing the Talarca cruisers - they do look very machine-like. How about just them and the alien fighters and freighters and bombers? That would make the faction very distinctive.
You haven't really answered my question about the alliance with the OPG. And why war with Bretonia? I say this because all my characters are in Bretonia, and well, to be honest, the area gets a fair kicking and a lot of this stems from the fact that the Bretonian factions restrict the use of cap ships. And I'll go out on a limb here and say that is one reason why Bretonia is a good place to play and not even remotely like NY: things are scaled-down and more believeable.
Quote:These questions are best answered by in game RP and study. But we will not be taking Bretonian vessels as I know some imagination levels would go critical and blow as they would not be able to handle it. (Rant)
You suggest a lack of imagination on other's parts. I don't think that is the case. People just want a set of rules and guidelines that allow some degree of balance to be achieved. I had a fine character who, people informed me, was stretching the bounds of credibility just a tad as far as game balance was concerned. I don't think accusing them of a lack of imagination would have solved anything, so I compromised. I didn't like it but I felt there was more enjoyment in the game for me once I understood this is a two-way street. We are playing a science fiction space travel game after all and we're here debating a race of sentient machines. If anything I think we're all a little TOO imaginative. All of us. Honestly guys. As for study? There's only so much time people can spend on the forums, what woth having to eat and sleep and everything.
Quote:I want fairness. i want the same clean slate the first player got and I deal with the rules the same way.
/signed. And that goes for everyone on the server.
Quote:I expect that you just want us really to get discouraged and cease to be so, you can have good ole Freelancer with only the stuff you're comfortable with.
Not at all. I want to see this faction get the nod. It's good to mix things up.
Good night and good luck. Hope nothing will be taken as a flame.
' Wrote:I can feel the heat rising here so I'll make my two cents real quick. And hope it will be taken as constructive criticism, and not a flame.
I know it must be annoying having people apparently attacking your faction proposal. You've put a lot into it and I personally enjoy seeing the harvesters in the game as it adds interesting variety.
Well you dropped the BH gunship so you've earned brownie points from me!
I hope there's a list of "Machine" vessels out there somewhere because I've started running into other "Harvesters" without the name. Automated mining vessels that act the idiot one minute, and then become all sophisticated on private comms once they are challenged and have to turn around. Are they all faction members? To be honest the "idiot" robot could become a little tired as it progresses. I mean even the robots on the planet in the omicrons are more eloquent. You do after all say:
It doesn't exist here already? A lot of people put a lot of work into playing this game. As for imagination? How imaginatively or effectively can someone interact in RP with something that responds like a monosyllabic child?
Re the proposal: what have people got problems with?
Firstly; capships. Come on now, name any other faction that has as many cruisers? Of course RP can justify it; RP can justify anything. You seem determined not to yield. I dont think any faction with so many cap ships will get the nod. The OPG caused the same heckles to rise and they have done a superb job of balancing things out. I like seeing the Talarca cruisers - they do look very machine-like. How about just them and the alien fighters and freighters and bombers? That would make the faction very distinctive.
You haven't really answered my question about the alliance with the OPG. And why war with Bretonia? I say this because all my characters are in Bretonia, and well, to be honest, the area gets a fair kicking and a lot of this stems from the fact that the Bretonian factions restrict the use of cap ships. And I'll go out on a limb here and say that is one reason why Bretonia is a good place to play and not even remotely like NY: things are scaled-down and more believeable.
You suggest a lack of imagination on other's parts. I don't think that is the case. People just want a set of rules and guidelines that allow some degree of balance to be achieved. I had a fine character who, people informed me, was stretching the bounds of credibility just a tad as far as game balance was concerned. I don't think accusing them of a lack of imagination would have solved anything, so I compromised. I didn't like it but I felt there was more enjoyment in the game for me once I understood this is a two-way street. We are playing a science fiction space travel game after all and we're here debating a race of sentient machines. If anything I think we're all a little TOO imaginative. All of us. Honestly guys. As for study? There's only so much time people can spend on the forums, what woth having to eat and sleep and everything.
/signed. And that goes for everyone on the server.
Not at all. I want to see this faction get the nod. It's good to mix things up.
Good night and good luck. Hope nothing will be taken as a flame.
Not at all flame like. A post worthy of the name. I now need to do some home work just waiting for a good block of time to do it on our ship list.
I understand that we have many capships. I was even at one point thinking of makeing our ONLY ship the Talarca. But I also want to appeal to our members and some just prefer strike craft so we have them. I otherwise get a number of folk who like capships come my way. Thats fine, we learn alittle capship manners and tactics in our cap whore faction. This last statement made in jest of course. We want a ship we can build about three of and call it a flag ship or heavy WAR ship, as opposed to our the main Harvester units.
Well as far as the "voice" there are no sound effects and there are no voice overs so in order to better send the feeling of "alien" machine intellect, we must chage the normal speaking voice into something not so easily digestable. There should be some in character communication problems. Other players should at first be saying to them selves "what does that mean exactly?". I know it means we accually have to play "dumb" machines but it beats being like every other machine that can talk easily. If fact it is the restrictive "voice" that gives new players the near instant realization that we are machines.
Normal speach just doesn't work for image. That being said, we have some machines built with politics in mind. Sort of like protical droids. They are new and few, but they are H_VOTM as in Voice of the machine.
Have you ever tried talking to the Keepers? They have difficult speach to understand too but I wouldnt want them to change at all. They do seem alien. Although, I have been trying to acknowledge everyone who PMs chats and oocs me in game to reduce the lack of RP alegations.
Our politics are well like very one elses in real life shady and laden with hidden agendas. Equinox hit the nail on the head right into a 2X4, (Sorry just being anti climactic compaired to some other uses of this phrase) when he said that the Corsair hold us at arms length and our "alliance" is unofficail. We only have an official arangment with the OPG.
Now keep in mind that the political disposition section of our request is "our view" of them not "thier view" of us. I will answer more later as I'm out of time and have to go to work. Hope this helps but state that which is still not understood so I may make clear. I know I wont change easily and it because we have our RP planned out its not about just being accepted and letting it be any old thing, we need to be convinced to change something and that it would benefit the RP. We are not changeing something just because folks dont understand yet or have "feelings" about it. So, please if you really want a change then convince not flame. (for anyone)
Thanks Athenian. for your view and let me know if this is lacking its really worth trying to satisfy minds who want to help. Other folks are helping to just giveing this guy his due.
ScornStar, I know...you quoted that segment, it's obvious you're addressing Unselie's point.
What I want to know is what in the name of god do you mean by what you typed in response to her, because none of us can understand what you are talking about...
Manufactured by Unselie?
She can't use them in an argument?
Ok now thatwe talked this out on scyp i see what you did not understand. I'll try to make clear for other folk because if you didnt understand my point then its possible others didnt either.
My point on Unseelie's post was that while they had a veru imaginative thought pattern, the point of view was one sided. How we would look at the same equation is this, in a nut shell.
One fighter cost about 30-35 million to outfit. At the cost of three fighters we could outfit One Talarca.
One Talarca carries more cargo, then three of our fighters. One Talarca can fight off more opposition that three fighters. One Talarca can explore deeper into uncharted territory and make it back in tact with any recovered cargo. One Talarca can do more lucradive Junker missions. So, while the initial cost is higher, the dividends are much much greater.
That was my point. The Talarca is more effiecent than a fighter force. Remember we all have different missions and like any force in the world we tailor our force to task. On the other hand, Unseelie has a sharp mind it seems.