It sounds like this was done to close the loophole of the RHA not being able to jump in and mess up people's events anywhere in it's ZOI. If any official faction set up a smuggling event and said people couldn't interfere in the smuggling, they should lose their official status. But when two opposing factions, let's say the Sairs and Bretonia, set up a fighty fight event, no, it shouldn't be ok for others to just jump in and try to ruin the fun. That is now what will happen anytime factions set up an event. Instead of just having admin approval for events ahead of time, we are now going to have a situation where anyone can just get involved and say it's unreasonable for them not to be allowed to muck it up in their ZOI.
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Or maybe that's not what'll happen at all. Your concerns are understandable, @nOmnomnOm and @Zelot and co, but just for once, could we proceed beyond a well-intentioned rule change with cautious optimism rather than interminable bitching? If it does turn out that this addendum does, in fact, completely ruin everything any official faction ever even considers doing ever, I'm sure there will be more than enough well-justified outcry about it to result in the change being reverted, but for now, it's barely even been 24 hours and already there's about a page's worth of the same old doomsday prophesying that helps keep Discovery stagnant. Give it a chance.
(01-03-2017, 11:29 AM)Petitioner Wrote: Or maybe that's not what'll happen at all. Your concerns are understandable, @nOmnomnOm and @Zelot and co, but just for once, could we proceed beyond a well-intentioned rule change with cautious optimism rather than interminable *****? If it does turn out that this addendum does, in fact, completely ruin everything any official faction ever even considers doing ever, I'm sure there will be more than enough well-justified outcry about it to result in the change being reverted, but for now, it's barely even been 24 hours and already there's about a page's worth of the same old doomsday prophesying that helps keep Discovery stagnant. Give it a chance.
The problem is, here is this community, soft change solidifies into concrete very quickly. As someone who is pretty well informed on how the admining process here works, it is much easier to make the initial change then to decide it's wrong and change it back. My time in this community has removed cautious optimism. I know that some members of the community will take advantage of every rule to maximize their ability to ruin other people's fun. This rule change really opens the door to it. I would put money on it with anyone in the community that this rule change will be used to disrupt factions events. @Petitioner You want to put some money down on it with me? Optimism is great, but naive optimism will bring more harm than good.
(01-03-2017, 11:12 AM)Zelot Wrote: It sounds like this was done to close the loophole of the RHA not being able to jump in and mess up people's events anywhere in it's ZOI. If any official faction set up a smuggling event and said people couldn't interfere in the smuggling, they should lose their official status. But when two opposing factions, let's say the Sairs and Bretonia, set up a fighty fight event, no, it shouldn't be ok for others to just jump in and try to ruin the fun. That is now what will happen anytime factions set up an event. Instead of just having admin approval for events ahead of time, we are now going to have a situation where anyone can just get involved and say it's unreasonable for them not to be allowed to muck it up in their ZOI.
So far it was stated that nothing is going to change for players. They -will not- decide what is and what is not reasonable and if they can jump into event on their own. Events are still protected. Just to remind the conversation from previous pages:
(01-02-2017, 12:26 PM)Laura C. Wrote: I understand the new wording just as a new tool for admins which will serve as justification to cancel or change official faction´s event if it´s unreasonable. The event itself will still stay protected, because it is not up to players to decide what is or isn´t reasonable (it would be way too unwise to let this on Disco community), but up to admins. Now if someone will complain/report some event, they finally have tool to act because before they could not technically.
Maybe some green could confirm if that´s correct interpretation?
(01-02-2017, 03:24 PM)Hannibal Wrote: @Laura C. pretty much..
(01-03-2017, 11:12 AM)Zelot Wrote: It sounds like this was done to close the loophole of the RHA not being able to jump in and mess up people's events anywhere in it's ZOI. If any official faction set up a smuggling event and said people couldn't interfere in the smuggling, they should lose their official status. But when two opposing factions, let's say the Sairs and Bretonia, set up a fighty fight event, no, it shouldn't be ok for others to just jump in and try to ruin the fun. That is now what will happen anytime factions set up an event. Instead of just having admin approval for events ahead of time, we are now going to have a situation where anyone can just get involved and say it's unreasonable for them not to be allowed to muck it up in their ZOI.
So far it was stated that nothing is going to change for players. They -will not- decide what is and what is not reasonable and if they can jump into event on their own. Events are still protected. Just to remind the conversation from previous pages:
(01-02-2017, 12:26 PM)Laura C. Wrote: I understand the new wording just as a new tool for admins which will serve as justification to cancel or change official faction´s event if it´s unreasonable. The event itself will still stay protected, because it is not up to players to decide what is or isn´t reasonable (it would be way too unwise to let this on Disco community), but up to admins. Now if someone will complain/report some event, they finally have tool to act because before they could not technically.
Maybe some green could confirm if that´s correct interpretation?
(01-02-2017, 03:24 PM)Hannibal Wrote: @Laura C. pretty much..
I'd like to see it in green in the admin's words, because it is all well and good to have Hannibal say "pretty much" but that isn't an official stance of the admin team and the wording of rules is important because of the way the opinion of the admin team changes over time. Right now it might not be that way, but at the end of the day, it only takes one admin vote to change the precedent and the way the rule is understood. This is not a clear rule, it should be significantly clarified if that is what is means, because that is not what it says. For example, when the faction rights were originally written, it wasn't even considered by the admins that FR5 would be used on a player of the same faction. Of course, that wouldn't happen, who would do that. Fast forward to now and it is often used against players of the same faction, yet there was no change in the wording of the rule to make that change, it just happened as admin staff changed over. This is why the wording of the rules is so important.
(01-03-2017, 11:12 AM)Zelot Wrote: It sounds like this was done to close the loophole of the RHA not being able to jump in and mess up people's events anywhere in it's ZOI. If any official faction set up a smuggling event and said people couldn't interfere in the smuggling, they should lose their official status. But when two opposing factions, let's say the Sairs and Bretonia, set up a fighty fight event, no, it shouldn't be ok for others to just jump in and try to ruin the fun. That is now what will happen anytime factions set up an event. Instead of just having admin approval for events ahead of time, we are now going to have a situation where anyone can just get involved and say it's unreasonable for them not to be allowed to muck it up in their ZOI.
So far it was stated that nothing is going to change for players. They -will not- decide what is and what is not reasonable and if they can jump into event on their own. Events are still protected. Just to remind the conversation from previous pages:
(01-02-2017, 12:26 PM)Laura C. Wrote: I understand the new wording just as a new tool for admins which will serve as justification to cancel or change official faction´s event if it´s unreasonable. The event itself will still stay protected, because it is not up to players to decide what is or isn´t reasonable (it would be way too unwise to let this on Disco community), but up to admins. Now if someone will complain/report some event, they finally have tool to act because before they could not technically.
Maybe some green could confirm if that´s correct interpretation?
(01-02-2017, 03:24 PM)Hannibal Wrote: @Laura C. pretty much..
I'd like to see it in green in the admin's words, because it is all well and good to have Hannibal say "pretty much" but that isn't an official stance of the admin team and the wording of rules is important because of the way the opinion of the admin team changes over time. Right now it might not be that way, but at the end of the day, it only takes one admin vote to change the precedent and the way the rule is understood. This is not a clear rule, it should be significantly clarified if that is what is means, because that is not what it says. For example, when the faction rights were originally written, it wasn't even considered by the admins that FR5 would be used on a player of the same faction. Of course, that wouldn't happen, who would do that. Fast forward to now and it is often used against players of the same faction, yet there was no change in the wording of the rule to make that change, it just happened as admin staff changed over. This is why the wording of the rules is so important.
That´s true. However I still don´t understand where the logic that players themselves can decide if the event is protected by FR4 or not comes from. Only admins decide if requirements are met or not (just like with any other official faction right or sanctions for other rules violations), not players. So for players, every official event still stays protected by FR4 until admins state otherwise.
If it´s really needed to make it crystal clear for everyone, a sentence like "Restriction is to be considered as valid until admins state otherwise." can be added.
(01-03-2017, 12:20 PM)Laura C. Wrote: If it´s really needed to make it crystal clear for everyone, a sentence like "Restriction is to be considered as valid until admins state otherwise." can be added.
Then why not just change the original rule to say something like subject to alteration by admins. What the current terminology does is make is make it sound like if you believe you have a good reason for interfering in a pre-organised event inrp then go ahead. The wording is also far too subjective.
Any rule is a subject to alternation by admins already.
Stop bickering.
This amendment changes quite literally absolutely nothing how you guys handle non-official events. It was made for us to point at when we shut something down so that we do not need to rely on the catchall rules all the time. The only reason this post exists is to give you a heads up we edited the rules section. Nothing changes for you.
When in doubt, double check with the team.
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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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(01-03-2017, 01:32 AM)nOmnomnOm Wrote: Also non of my events turned out to be like you described so basically your post is cancer
Tottori? People had to tell you about problem with Hogosha. But you went on LALALALA rampage but Then you were forced to include Hogosha in their own homeworld. Doesn't it ring a Bell now?
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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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