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(01-05-2017, 01:14 AM)The Archangels Fighter Club Wrote: Im going by the rules, and your attitude that i have to answer you right away is annoying and disrespectful.
I think he's trying to say that you won't be able to uphold any laws due to your faction not having access to FR1, 2, 5, 6, 7 - due to it being a Freelancer/generic faction, as you don't represent any npc faction. Nor does your ID allow you to uphold laws.
First of all, saying I am not posting something quickly for you and then saying becasue of that i have nothing to show is pretty annoying.
Go ahead and file a report. I know my back is covered 100%. If you think hard enough also, I am sure you can figure out how AFC knows inRP some things.
Reason being that I wont show any evidence in public to you is becasue I see diplo as strategy. In strategy, you dont show your cards to the opponent.
For you to come first of all, reading a post that is encrypted and already guessing stuff, and then going on in your guessing to make a whole drama is just gg. You and your gang of friends teaming up to squeeze 'evidence' oorply when you feel threatened.
So no. I actually have the right to withhold my 'card' from being played. If you want administration to deal with it, then I'll have fun copy-pasting my conversation over to other admins that I took the time already to prove my innocence.
Allow me to make a statement that I do not need FR whatever to do what I plan to do. There are more than 1 way to flip a rock.
Firstly, let me just tell you this whole situation is clearly crap already from the start.
First a side note: A/) have been hunting me down and saying: you are illegal in this space (sigmas) time to shoot you. Or : you have too many passengers time to shoot you.
To the point that they were combat logging on me to do it.
And now Auzari Hypocrytically comes here to say I cannot do any laws.
Another thing that is hypocrytical about Auzari which kind of frames you as a hypocryt even more is that you have used the same strategy that I am going to use for my Newport situation: The Bounty Board.
You see, using A/) as an example again, they had not really said any time to me or any other afc "you have a boutny on your head time to collect" . Rather, they have been making up other excuses and laying down their own laws to then kill us.
Sirius Wide.
Additional to the crap I have been facing is GMG FR5ing AFC and AFC having to not really been able to do much about it.
First of all though, I am going to assume by your own words that AFC is a generic and freelancer based faction.
By the way side note, we are not.
Our Exotic Entertainers prove it and you can read my essay here about it which was posted publically some time ago: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MHF-...VmlyU/edit
I suggest you read up on that to see how i break apart this statement you make on my faction.
But for the sake of argument, let's say i am wrong and you say i am a generic freelancer based faction.
So if the argument is that AFC cannot administer Newport becasue Newport is a freelancer base. (which i still dont understand becasue you guys say im freelancer base and that base is freelancer IFF so it matches). Why does GMG get to be demand to be administators of the base now but AFC cannot? Why are GMG actively stopping Freelancers from docking on a freelancer base, but me as a freelancer based faction cannot do the same. Why? Why does that happen?
You know how that all started? Powergaming.
In the post here, http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=143355 which started this whole thing mega time btw, GMG sent message to Adminstators. AFC replied and then GMG said without AFC's control by the way that we have been expanding our base.... because a dev had added storage moduels without our notice.
So based on this, the GMG started to powergame this fact and start demanding that we give ownership to them. We refused and then we got FR5ed.
The FR5 was basically the Admins agreeing that Newport is Administered by AFC. If not, the whole situation would have been retconned even.
So then you see actions being made by GMG to stop anyone from docking on Newport including FREELANCERS.
IS the AFC not allowed to basically counter the GMG and make a network against this threat? Might I add that GMG are attacking freelancers, but they are not FR5ed from that base themselves, even though a corsair wing is around inRP to protect the base atm too.
Alright next thing to mention is to break down what do laws actually do:
There is contraband laws, violence laws, and non violence laws.
For Contraband, AFC is against cardamine and slaves. That is clear in our own ID. We have also a bounty to claim Exotic Entertainers off other ships. That is also a law we have.
For violence laws, we can use the bounty board to act. Since we cannot FR5 people, we can still shoot them if we post a bounty. No harm with that and perfectly fair. Deal with the RP concequences, no? I have heard lots of people telling me this, but now you guys say i have to play nice with everyone meanwhile there have been many people doing anything they can against me. Kinda nice.
For non-violent laws, I cannot really think much, besides dont be rude to an Archangel? What else is there? Looking at the Liberty Laws for instance you have passengers, fleeing, public disturbance, flying while drunk....
AFC dont really care all that much about these, so long as the base stays safe. The only thing i'd say can work is causing public disturbance such as dumping waste.
I mean.... if you want to tell your friends all to bring toxic waste and dump it all on newport just so you can break my laws, go for it? What will that accomplish for you. lol
I think you are pushing this a bit too far and not actually thinking what "enforcing laws mean" and what I can actually do. I can use the bounty board to basically have a hired merc 'police' presence. Just like A/) have been using bounty board to randomly be sirius police force against AFC.
Basically, I dont see what rules you have that say they are preventing me to do things. I dont see why I cannot develope my faction further as there is a THREAT TO ALL FREELANCERS TO FREQUENT THE BASE BECAUSE GMG WOULD SHOOT THEM.
I think that is more of a PROBLEM to the uneducated person when their indy FL is not allowed to dock on a base that is a freelancer base. I think it is a problem that the GMG are acting more of an administrator than I AM.
It's kind of dumb, and you really should look at the whole picture and really think about what "enforcing laws" can actually mean.
IT IS ALSO WHY I ASKED YOU TO WAIT TILL I FINISHED MY THREAD
But yeah... you think I am a "stand off" . Whatever.
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I actually want to make a few notes concerning something about your faction and mine.
There are reasons behind it, primarily due to the fact that the Club is hauling Artifacts without knowing that they're the 'safe' kind of people to be hauling those kind of things into Liberty. Working with Corsairs and ignoring the comms that were sent to you to give you a clean slate (which, if not ignored, could have fixed some things if you told the truth and said it was going to LH or w/e. ) - only adds more 'negative points' to the whole reputation thing. I already told you this dude xd
Yes, 20 million is an insane bounty. It's only a partial motivator for doing it. Another thing is that we're claiming off of the Junkers Bounties, -not- our own, AFC isn't bountied on our board. Most of the times, AFC are just ignored nowadays. Hell, I've even taken part of one of the events, watched some, and outright told you within the game that I don't bounty hunt AFC on SR - or that the bounty hunting ships won't hunt in House Space. I don't have a grudge over you or your faction to go out my way to stomp you. It's a waste of my time, it's pointless, it's stupid, and - well - jesus dude, you've been insanely paranoid lately, but this isn't about you though.
Concerning the Bounty Board thing, fine. But don't abuse it and consider moderation please. Otherwise, we'll all have factions that just bounty people simply because they can, we don't need factions to be more restricted. (As far as I'm aware, things can be bountied as long as it's an open board, not an internal one. )
As for the evidence, well, I've looked back on the encounters and found /zilch/. No bystanders - nothing. So who knows.
Also, you have to remember that inRPly claiming the station also removes the purpose of it as being a 'Freelancer' station - it's no longer independant, free, owned by a bigger entity. GMG was also interested in ridding of Yanagi, which was Newport under Junker control previously, but, I'd be willing to say that GMG wish to keep a tight control of the Sigmas, which will also start conflicts in Sigma-15 over the Planet.
Btw, even if you are a generic faction, you can still request your own stuff (engines/cargo/whatever). That's a faction perk.
(01-05-2017, 03:38 AM)Auzari Wrote: I actually want to make a few notes concerning something about your faction and mine.
1. There are reasons behind it, primarily due to the fact that the Club is hauling Artifacts without knowing that they're the 'safe' kind of people to be hauling those kind of things into Liberty. Working with Corsairs and ignoring the comms that were sent to you to give you a clean slate (which, if not ignored, could have fixed some things if you told the truth and said it was going to LH or w/e. ) - only adds more 'negative points' to the whole reputation thing. I already told you this dude xd
2.Yes, 20 million is an insane bounty. It's only a partial motivator for doing it. Another thing is that we're claiming off of the Junkers Bounties, -not- our own, AFC isn't bountied on our board. Most of the times, AFC are just ignored nowadays. Hell, I've even taken part of one of the events, watched some, and outright told you within the game that I don't bounty hunt AFC on SR - or that the bounty hunting ships won't hunt in House Space. I don't have a grudge over you or your faction to go out my way to stomp you. It's a waste of my time, it's pointless, it's stupid, and - well - jesus dude, you've been insanely paranoid lately, but this isn't about you though.
3.Concerning the Bounty Board thing, fine. But don't abuse it and consider moderation please. Otherwise, we'll all have factions that just bounty people simply because they can, we don't need factions to be more restricted.
4.As for the evidence, well, I've looked back on the encounters and found /zilch/. No bystanders - nothing.
5.Also, you have to remember that inRPly claiming the station also removes the purpose of it as being a 'Freelancer' station - it's no longer independant, free, owned by a bigger entity. GMG was also interested in ridding of Yanagi, which was Newport under Junker control previously, but, I'd be willing to say that GMG wish to keep a tight control of the Sigmas, which will also start conflicts in Sigma-15 over the Planet.
6.Btw, even if you are a generic faction, you can still request your own stuff (engines/cargo/whatever). That's a faction perk.
1. Lol even prior to that, without knowing about the Artifacts, you have shot us.
Even from the start your faction was negative towards us and you were just looking for a reason to shoot. It's fine. Do your thing. Litterally hunt down my players that cannot pvp for easy 20 millions.
2. I completely disagree with what you are saying here. Completely. And I have proof you are going out of your way too.
You are using the Bounty board for your own gain, and then making excuses just to try to cover up that you are not bounty hunting even. I didn't want to reply to you back becasue why should I? It's funny you are bringing the LH~ into this too. Should I assume you have been doing your own meta in regards to that as well?
3. So you can do your things but I cant. Wow so fair.
4. Look harder. Again if you want to file a report then do it. I already made my case to an admin anyway. But go ahead.
5. It doesnt remove the purpose of it if I am going to protect freelancers from being denied to dock.
6. And you can use the bounty system as well.
Edit: Additionally , we ignored you becasue you shot our Exotic Entertainer ship. That's like ... a BIG nono.
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Well, I know you're just going to keep arguing on so...
I forgot to previously mention that there was a no disclosure agreement on the Junker Bounty Board - so we can't even mention the existance of it inRP. And to be fair, if it isn't us claiming it, then someone else would be. The blame will simply only shift. It's been like this for ages when it comes to bounties, heh.
But honestly, I'm not going after you personally. I've already said this many times. If you feel like I'm targeting you, then I'm sorry.
So, claiming on Bounty Boards is abusing it? wat. If you're talking about our personal one - it's open up to whoever registers, as it's an open bounty board. And we only target the relevant targets - not all of our enemies. We don't have Unioners on there for example. Yes - sure - whatever - protect Freelancers if you wish. The Bounty System isn't a perk. I was refering to your Exotic Entertainers request - which doesn't really prove you're an npc faction with the same rights. (green text in the other thread said you had the similar faction rights thing anyway, so there's literally no point in arguing it. )
And if your counter-claim about the evidence is just 'look harder' - then - well - guess you really are lacking prior RP. Whelp. That's not good. I'm not going to report you because I want you to do better, and that doesn't make me any much more of a good person by playing the report game on a constant basis. That's the major issue in the community, people are taking it /too/ seriously and personal. If you want to continue this kind of play, that's entirely up to you.
Either way. Nothing more to say here then, I think I'm going to get nothing further out of this thread.
(01-05-2017, 04:09 AM)Auzari Wrote: Well, I know you're just going to keep arguing on so...
I forgot to previously mention that there was a no disclosure agreement on the Junker Bounty Board - so we can't even mention the existance of it inRP. And to be fair, if it isn't us claiming it, then someone else would be. The blame will simply only shift. It's been like this for ages when it comes to bounties, heh.
But honestly, I'm not going after you personally. I've already said this many times. If you feel like I'm targeting you, then I'm sorry.
So, claiming on Bounty Boards is abusing it? wat. If you're talking about our personal one - it's open up to whoever registers, as it's an open bounty board. And we only target the relevant targets - not all of our enemies. We don't have Unioners on there for example. Yes - sure - whatever - protect Freelancers if you wish. The Bounty System isn't a perk. I was refering to your Exotic Entertainers request - which doesn't really prove you're an npc faction with the same rights. (green text in the other thread said you had the similar faction rights thing anyway, so there's literally no point in arguing it. )
And if your counter-claim about the evidence is just 'look harder' - then - well - guess you really are lacking prior RP. Whelp. That's not good. I'm not going to report you because I want you to do better, and that doesn't make me any much more of a good person by playing the report game on a constant basis. That's the major issue in the community, people are taking it /too/ seriously and personal. If you want to continue this kind of play, that's entirely up to you.
Either way. Nothing more to say here then, I think I'm going to get nothing further out of this thread.
Happy 5th day of 2017.
Yeah "look harder", becasue I wont give it to you and you can easily just assume I dont have it if you want.
The fact that you wont report it just shows you are two sided. You know I am right and wont waste your time, but you still feel like demanding that I dont have anything.
Honestly, get a grip. I dont metagame. I never really did.... besides one when i first started out and it was small and insignificant... I've been pretty well-played on the issue, so if someone claims I meta, I have nothing really to say but go and think that way if you want.
Actually, I made it from the start for AFC so that our actions are a result of RP for the most part. If not all. We have a reason always for our actions and my claims are from inRP situations and things i have seen in game as well as roleplaying on forums.
But you know... just continue to think I have nothing. I actually have 2-3 things piled up but whatever (2-3 becasue the first is sketchy from the RP I had witnessed). Im not looking to look good towards you, and I do not want to give out stuff I can use inRP oorply. It's bad, becasue you can just metagame it yourself somehow or in some method.
Anyway.
No im not talking about your personal bounty board and i dont see what about abusing is there to discuss. You mentioned to not abuse the bounty board or it will be moderatored or something. I have been doing my BB thing for a while and will keep making it fair and fine. The argument of "if not me then someone else" doesnt really make a difference in this conversation either. I dont know what difference would it make, You decide what you do with your faction.
As for the EEs, we got it becasue we proved the issue. That's basically what came down to it. Faction perk was denied first becasue "you are a freelancer/generic faction". I had to prove admins wrong basically. So every time someone tells me AFC is, I kinda cringe inside becasue all my hard work needs to be done again.
You know what, screw it. If I am right about you using what I will tell you to your own advantage, then it is all recorded here anyway as to my assumptions for not wanting to put this oorp.
Since you are so hard headed, I will just prove you wrong and look like jerks.
1st incident was when I personally saw khal's ship and the A/) ships flying together clear as day in Liberty and only when i called you out did you start "fighting" . It was a really sketchy RP and this is my -ish- evidence.
2nd incident was your attempt to report to khal about us smuggling in Liberty. What you fail to note is that I had taken a screen that matches yours that Khal sent me as evidence #2. Thanks for that. That gives us basically the connection that you guys are somehow working together.
3rd and the largest incident is that if you search of Automatic in your com logs, you will find me RPing with you about getting our EE back from a Junker who kidnapped her. What you fail to realize there is that the 5th| was present to. I have about 2+ screens of both ships working together, chatting, and also logs of you doing some sort of thing against the Order| ship too. It's pretty good evidence to suggest a collaboration between your two characters.
Anyway, all I needed to do is think logically and inRP i can connect the dots together, just like I had connected the dots about Junker Congress and A/). Hell... it came to a point that an ex-congressman even blurted out he is going to send the A/) to attack us. Quite the gold mine of evidence there.
Edit: HAh i just realized too, I bet the reason all of you were pressing so hard to know what I have oorply is becasue you might think I have some damnable evidence that you were dieing to know. Calling me bluff was a good strategy to find out, but now this has a counter and I am picking it up. You guys now look like jerks.
Thanks for making the game a whole less enjoyable. In your own words: people take the game way to seriously.
Well YOU are a hypocrite yet again, since you took this whole thing very seriously to know what I have.
Quote:As for the EEs, we got it becasue we proved the issue. That's basically what came down to it. Faction perk was denied first becasue "you are a freelancer/generic faction". I had to prove admins wrong basically. So every time someone tells me AFC is, I kinda cringe inside becasue all my hard work needs to be done again.
So I read the entire thing right now, and while I really suggest you to take a small break and not answer to this thread instantly every time someone posts here, and just make them wait rather than telling them to, which doesn't work as it pretty much looked like you have nothing to back up your latest things, I'm actually a bit confused. And a bit concerned about the way you respond to things, as it looks like you think the entire world is against you right now.
Anyway, independent from what Zelot asked, I'd ask you the same, because I don't get it rightly but want to understand it.
Is Newport AFC or Freelancer? Like, I know AFC uses Freelancer installations, but it's new to me that they control them, administrate them. Apart from me disliking the idea of a faction administrating a Freelancer station, I ask you to tell me where I can read up more about when Newport turned into an AFC station and when exactly the Admins "agreed" to it. Like, that sounds a bit taken out of context to me. Wouldn't Newport show up as AFC if it was AFC? I mean, sure, inRP I can claim everything, but having partially control over a Freelancer station and administrating it as a whole are two different things and I just can't befriend with the claim of a Freelancer station being AFC-controlled. That seems a bit, well, powergamey. So if you could provide me with the links that show both the background of AFCs expanding influence on Newport and the post where the Admins are said to have agreed on it, that would help me getting a better picture of it.
Like, I was really surprised about that. It simply means that a Freelancer who is claiming AFC kills on the NC- or .:j:. board can still happily dock at Newport with the only thing that may happens is AFC adding them to their own Bounty Board. Would annoy me to have people running around on my station that I actually bounty hunt.
And then, What is AFC now? Is AFC a Freelancer/generic faction or not? If yes, why do you say that's wrong in the part I quoted? If no, why trying to act as if Newport was AFC then, as it's Freelancer?
This is not to offend you, but I seriously wonder. Also, you might want to reflect your current forum appearance a bit. Like, it really looks like you're just trying to find personal/emotional attacks in what people wrote on the recent two pages, and it seems to me like you're desperately trying to, well, what you said in your latest post, make them look like jerks, while you may not realize that exactly that kind of behavior is falling back to yourself. I know, you have a troublesome time right now, with two pages of AFC feedback and people triggering you with oh-so-funny memes about the FR4 clarification - which even in my opinion is a good thing, I have to admit, as using FR4 in the latest cases always had something fishy about it, as it was rather used to provoke rather than to defend an event - but in cases like this is the sandwich rule overwriting every other rules and laws and rights.
The most important thing about this community is basically transparency, and being afraid of sharing clarificating information about things that look, without knowing the context, pretty powergamey, isn't the way to go, just as saying "I'm not going to tell" isn't. You could have spared yourself quite a lot of trouble and time with just telling how you back up your claims. If people start meta/powergaming their knowledge, be it the case or not, is their problem, as they make themselves just vulnerable to reports. You want to be on the safe side.
Skimming over your post, Sombra, I will take your view and advice into consideration. Thanks you.
Perhaps I am quite paranoid, but it's been growing more and more for a while now and I had my reasons.
I can explain to you about your questions in the morning when I get up. Ill leave you with some links though so you can have a chance to read some background RP if you are interested.
Calling people jerks and acting immature seems to be the new thing this year. They asked for some screenshots and clarification in a situation and you handled the matter poorly, which isn't what anyone would expect from an Official Faction, let alone its leader.
Granted I'm no angel, but have the decency to talk to people in a respectable way so you don't come out looking like - well, exactly what you called them. A jerk. So if you're done with the petty episodes of assuming everyone is out to get you and backing yourself in to a corner with a large stick, I've got a genuine question.
Simply becoming official doesn't exclude you from the fact that you stemmed from a non-generic faction, using the Freelancer ID and IFF, so on and so forth, which would make the listed faction rights void to you unless stated otherwise. While you have every right to roleplay ownership of a station - and some fairly extensive stuff at that - you don't actually have any means of asserting that control or enforcing roleplay consequences.
So my question is - Why go through all the effort to defend the topic when you can just as easily shrug off all the naysayers and post that wall of links like you did above? Why stoop to levels of childish rhetoric and nonsense? That only furthers the issues that you seem to feel as though you're constantly facing.