' Wrote:We officially destroyed alliance on meeting with Order| month or two ago.
What's the problem?
What about SCRA... Look, you've got one wing based off O-52. You think we won't spot Order ships coming out of O-52? You think Corsairs are only low-life criminals or stupid idiots, so they won't ask themselves what were you doing there?
You think they won't notice you prefering to land on RH / SCRA bases to Corsairs bases?
Speak directly then
That is crap and metagaming, and it was said so many times before.
And Carlos, we never worked together with SCRA in O-52, we have been there, but we never flew along with them, we never actually had SCRA company, except forumwise.
I should know it, my Neph was in O-52 and it was dead.
Besides, even if you would have spotted us somewhere in the Omegas, how could you know of the purpose ?
Simply said FR5 is far too bitchy, but what what happened, happened.
And we are fine;)
Otherwise I don't know what HC and Elders have talked about, if they ever sat together, so that's just my opinion.
' Wrote:This is going to be harder on the corsairs than it is on the order. As I said in the admin notice thread regarding this change, the corsairs pushed this by metagaming information they should not have had access to (forum posts not directed towards their faction), the blame lies entirely with them.
The corsairs now have only two allies, both of which are underpopulated and far from their space. They're surrounded by enemies - the nomads, the wilde, the hessians, the BHG, the outcasts, now the order - hell, even the zoners dont like them all that much. Their primary smuggling route for artifacts is now going to be intercepted by order patrols in delta and minor, as well.
Look at their primary opponents, though - the outcasts... who have allies through almost all of sirius. The Chrysanthemums, the bretonian lawfuls, the mollies, the hackers, the liberty rogues, and are even considered neutral by the nomads (player-wise). Seems to me the corsairs are just screwing themselves harder and harder as time goes by, and all due to the selfish attitude their playerbase continues to encourage.
The Order will find other allegiances. We're working on becoming official allies with the blood dragons, SCRA, and rheinland unlawfuls (bundschuh/hessians in particular) - we've been working on returning to our 'vanilla' alliances for some time now. Those will all give us paths around corsair space when needed.
Well lets take a look at that for a second, the Corsairs are either winning or in a stalemate on every front, while having the largest non-house military in Sirius just sitting in Gamma and the surrounding systems. I dont really see how this would be hard on the Corsairs.
Also, nothing has been metagamed, do you really think patrols from Cadiz or o50 would not see Order ships flying in the known direction of o52? The Corsairs are neither stupid nor ignorant, so it would be pretty easy to see that something is going on there.
Also, one of the points of this is to get rid of all the Order Osirises thinking they can just sit in Gamma doing what they like. Just yesterday i told a TCG| Osiris to leave, and was told "But we are allies!". Now this is something that is really annoying, especially when we are trying to lessen the number of Corsair capital ships sitting in Gamma.
As to the comments about the Order having issues flying off anywhere, that's a major design fault with the Order in the mod. They're condensed into one area for seemingly little reason.
Quote:This situation has arisen because of an initiative by Order players to reorganise the status quo of in-game diplomacy, outside of the constraints of facts and structures within the mod and game itself, rather than operating within those parameters, or implementing change through the Dev-team. The attempts to rationalise such radical changes, by the Corsairs, has lead to a downgrading of diplomatic status, and attempts to rationalise such changes by the Admins has lead to this repninja.
If, at any point, Order leaders had have approached Corsair leaders, OORP, and opened discussions on how best to implement this major transition for mutual benefit and overall stability, the Corsairs would have complied. It COULD have lead to interesting RP chats and events, and at the very least could have guaranteed that those involved turned a blind eye to poorly concealed "secret dealings" in-game.
However, no such offers were made.
With such determination to exclude the Corsairs from involvement in this transition, and with such determination to implement change against the mod, rather than with it, the Order leadership are guilty of much more "selfishness" than any member of the Corsair playerbase.
You're talking out your arse. It was our intent from the start to have these alliance changes go through -with- 4.86, through the dev team's adjustements to in-game infocards and reputation listings. The RP for such a change has to be built up beforehand, however, there was no way to do that without the forum diplomacy posts that were made between the order and these other factions.
Stop trying to pin this crap on us, it wasnt our initiative to break the alliance this early, nor was it our intent to cause full blown hostility between the factions.
If anything, it -is- zelot's fault, and not just because of the stupid forum meme that goes on around here. The last time Zelot asked for the use of an order ship, he went into nerdrage mode when we responded with the appropriate restrictions for using the ship, from that point on he's been trying to make the order and corsairs hostile to one another without consulting -either- faction. This entire incident is probably occuring because we wouldnt let him invade house space or fight the outcasts using one of our cruisers.
Quote:Also, nothing has been metagamed, do you really think patrols from Cadiz or o50 would not see Order ships flying in the known direction of o52? The Corsairs are neither stupid nor ignorant, so it would be pretty easy to see that something is going on there.
Two can play that game.
Do you really think the order, being known as the most elusive and stealth-based faction in sirius, would allow some mangy pirates to detect them dealing with 'under the table' allies?
As a certified doctor (yeah right) I have concluded that the Order has contracted a case of the raving Willy Wonka syndrome... but hey, that's all good and well, without a bit of chaos the mod would be QUITE boring.
Tum-dee-dum... Which leads to me ask: Will the Order not go hostile to my beloved nation since they're now officially barking up the SCRA tree?
Do you really think the order, being known as the most elusive and stealth-based faction in sirius, would allow some mangy pirates to detect them dealing with 'under the table' allies?
Well seeing as the Corsair ptrol every inch of our side of the system, which includes the o52 jump hole, do you really think you would be able to sneak past? What about this, Cadiz is huge, a city within an asteroid, with scanners powerful enough to watch the Hessians half the system away to know when they are coming for an attack, would you really think you would be able to get within 20k or so of Cadiz without being spotted?
And no it is not Zelots fault, if you think that way you may as well blame Carlos as well, hell, you may as well blame the whole Elder Council.
But the question is, why blame anyone? What is so bad about this? What massive inconvenience is it going to cause the Order?
As far as i can see, this isnt really going to change much on your end, it will just help things on our end, as you wont end up seeing Corsair fleets invading Minor, or Corsairs hunting down Order in Delta. In fact, the only change is that you will no longer be able to use our nice shieldbusters, and your indies will no longer be able to sit in Gamma and powermission from Tripoli.
So all this bitching and drama is in essence, completely pointless.
Perhaps we need to talk things through, but I doubt that will happen since the Corsairs have decided to be red.
Eh.
Personally I'm fully up for it, but I think even if we try to do that, insults from both sides will ruin every attempt. :|
' Wrote:That is crap and metagaming, and it was said so many times before.
And Carlos, we never worked together with SCRA in O-52, we have been there, but we never flew along with them, we never actually had SCRA company, except forumwise.
I should know it, my Neph was in O-52 and it was dead. Besides, even if you would have spotted us somewhere in the Omegas, how could you know of the purpose ?
Simply said FR5 is far too bitchy, but what what happened, happened.
And we are fine;)
Otherwise I don't know what HC and Elders have talked about, if they ever sat together, so that's just my opinion.
Nice answer, Orley. That makes me sad. Let's answer on all questions "Yes" or "No"? That works, yeah.
While technically you haven't flown with SCRA, IRP you DO reports with them. Your wing was attached to O-52 to monitor Omegas sector for Wilde / Nomad activity?
We'd not know about purposes, but active avoiding Corsair bases of course'd cause some eyebrow raises..
' Wrote:Do you really think the order, being known as the most elusive and stealth-based faction in sirius, would allow some mangy pirates to detect them dealing with 'under the table' allies?
Do you really think Crete is populated only by dirty and stupid pirates and criminals? Somehow, Corsairs are technological geniuses (IRP, at least).
Also, the most elusive faction isn't only the Order. Lane Hackers, IND, Phantoms, Blood Dragons, GMG, the Wild (Aoi Isejin), Hogosha, Unione Course are now ignored, awesome.
And the Order'd allow pirates to detect them, of course! It's just some pirate, what's the difference? Let's ruin alliance with those pirates, indeed.
' Wrote:As a certified doctor (yeah right) I have concluded that the Order has contracted a case of the raving Willy Wonka syndrome... but hey, that's all good and well, without a bit of chaos the mod would be QUITE boring.
Tum-dee-dum... Which leads to me ask: Will the Order not go hostile to my beloved nation since they're now officially barking up the SCRA tree?
Actually, the Order was never actively hostile to Outcasts, but your drone flying around Minor won't result in anything good.
The Order won't stop in front of Outcasts defending Nomads as well.
' Wrote:Well seeing as the Corsair ptrol every inch of our side of the system, which includes the o52 jump hole, do you really think you would be able to sneak past? What about this, Cadiz is huge, a city within an asteroid, with scanners powerful enough to watch the Hessians half the system away to know when they are coming for an attack, would you really think you would be able to get within 20k or so of Cadiz without being spotted?
Again then, even if you would have spotted us, how could you know about a possible "alliance" ?
What if we have been flying around in Eta or even Alpha, you have a baseat least in Eta too.
Does that mean we are searching an alliance with the Outcasts, because they are there, too ?
' Wrote:and your indies will no longer be able to sit in Gamma and powermission from Tripoli.
So all this bitching and drama is in essence, completely pointless.
Well, you are right, but the fact, that order indies doing missions in gamma, even if they have been quiet a lot,
I did a lot of missions there a few months ago, too.
' Wrote:Again then, even if you would have spotted us, how could you know about a possible "alliance" ?
What if we have been flying around in Eta or even Alpha, you have a baseat least in Eta too.
Does that mean we are searching an alliance with the Outcasts, because they are there, too ?
Well, the ting is, we know there are Nomads in Alpha, but you could just as easily be heading to the Taus or even Gallia.
However, o52 has no Nomads or Wilde in it, and is completely surrounded by Corsairs (o50 is home to a large population of Corsairs, and o5 is home to entire fleets), so no Corsairs seeing you head in the direction of that system is pretty hard to believe. And we dont know that you want an alliance, just that, as there are no Nomads or Wilde there (or at least that we have ever seen), and you are avoiding Corsair bases to get into the system, more than a few eyebrows would be raised by this behaviour.