(09-21-2017, 11:24 AM)sasapinjic Wrote: ^ ^ proof is in sanction section, search : Slave-Express
Could you not bring up 15 months old sanction into argument that has absolutely nothing to do with ongoing discussion about PvP? It's actually scummy even if you would have managed to be on point.
Based on what I see in this thread, fighter PvP is fun only to a minority because of many reasons. If fighters are fun to a minority, then they will be used by a minority. This means that battles can be reduced to 5 caps screaming "CDCDCDCD" to a single fighter all the time, and scolding him when someone is not CD-ed.
This problem is a fact that is clear to everyone and this thread should not even have presented it, because that was pointless. The problem that is less clear or, in other words, that is very hard to solve, is what the devs should do in order to fix fighter PvP. Well, not fix it, since it's not broken, but rather make it more appealing. The steep learning curve seems to be the main issue here. I neither fly fighters nor I am a dev, though, so I can't propose solution, I can only ask questions.
So, how to make fighter PvP fun for both the vets and the newbies? What is the reason that can be given to newbies flying fighters, to keep flying fighters, instead of switching to caps, and doesn't cripplingly undermine the vets at the same time?
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It's actually quite simple, you put different weapons on the same slot so people have to choose and give up something in return. That's just another one of many flaws auxiliary slots have, they removed all variety that existed on snubs. Trading a missile for a gun or a CD for a torp/MR added exactly that - good pvpers always used full gunners while bad pvpers took a missile. Add a new maxim which is the new CD replacement for bad pvpers and we can easily have a much healthier system without too much work - where both the sidewinder and the maxim are available to the bad pvper at the expense of a CD and a gun, something an ace won't do.
Exactly, You cant kill anyone with one missile Launcher and 20 Missiles in cargo hold, you can bearly scratched it.
With 2 Missiles and 40 ammo you may do something.
That worked before, at least you had slim chance to work.
(09-21-2017, 11:50 AM)sasapinjic Wrote: Exactly, You cant kill anyone with one missile Launcher and 20 Missiles in cargo hold, you can bearly scratched it.
With 2 Missiles and 40 ammo you may do something.
That worked before, at least you had slim chance to work.
No mate. Antonia is saying that we need to go back to times when you had to make an important choice when choosing your loadout as you could only choose CD or Torpedo on their dedicated slot. Same for Class 10 Gun or missile on their dedicated slot.
Now, you can have 6 guns and additional deadly missile on top, which doesn't make you choose. Comparison: RPG where you can have all skills unlocked without any variation that would spice up your encounters.
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(09-21-2017, 11:50 AM)sasapinjic Wrote: Exactly, You cant kill anyone with one missile Launcher and 20 Missiles in cargo hold, you can bearly scratched it.
With 2 Missiles and 40 ammo you may do something.
That worked before, at least you had slim chance to work.
If you're referring to the current Sidewinder, you can definitely scratch anyone's hull with a 7.8k dmg guaranteed hit missile. Missiles get exponentially more useful the more you have them (and the more people you have as a result), so it's natural they'll perform the worst in a duel, but that doesn't make the current Sidewinder any less broken and it's even dominant in duels since it's guaranteed free damage. An MR has to be aimed, a Maxim has to be sprayed and your ship positioned accordingly, a Cannonball forces you to come close, aim it and risk of blowing yourself up even if you land a hit, while on the Sidewinder it's just press 1 button and enjoy.
(09-21-2017, 11:50 AM)sasapinjic Wrote: Exactly, You cant kill anyone with one missile Launcher and 20 Missiles in cargo hold, you can bearly scratched it.
With 2 Missiles and 40 ammo you may do something.
That worked before, at least you had slim chance to work.
No mate. Antonia is saying that we need to go back to times when you had to make an important choice when choosing your loadout as you could only choose CD or Torpedo on their dedicated slot. Same for Class 10 Gun or missile on their dedicated slot.
Now, you can have 6 guns and additional deadly missile on top, which doesn't make you choose. Comparison: RPG where you can have all skills unlocked without any variation that would spice up your encounters.
Yes, i know what he meant, i meant same thing, couse back then i had SHF with 2 Missiles and 2 torpedoes and no CD, so i had a slim chance to win if i unload all in nose of attacker.
I use it on my escort ship to distract attacker until my transport flee.
I had slim chance to win, but slim is better than no chance as is now. Current mssile can damage a little if you are lucky, but with only 20 Missiles in hold, thats just 10-20 bits spend for one you are hitting, and thats only if he is to busy with something so he dont pay atention to you.
Exactly, the old gun/missle & cd/torp/mr worked perfectly fine in my humble opinion. Vets could still kill newbies withno any effort, but some newbies could at least do something if they lacked some natural aim, with hopes of their missiles to hit.
And I'll still complain about the removal of missiles, which took away another vanilla feeling of the game. Like in vanila you could even mount missiles instead of regular gun, not class 10 slot like we used to have in disco. It'd be my actual perfect dream, but I have high doubts for bringing it back to this state of things.
(09-21-2017, 05:55 AM)Durandal Wrote: Dear diary. It is 12:45 AM. I have an interview tomorrow, but I decided to check the Discovery forums before heading to sleep. Thread number 153537 continues to defy Peto's Paradox, growing larger and more malignant by the second. I could perform surgery, but it would increase the risk of the tumor metastasizing. Better to let it stay where it is for now rather than excising it and letting it spill over into the rest of the forums. I think.
I'm going to bed now. I may have a look at the... Discoma? Forumoma? Before I leave tomorrow, but I'm not sure if I'll have time. It should be interesting to see how this plays out. Durandal, lead art developer and senior balance developer, signing off.
Good luck with your interview, but please don't blame it on "cancerous" people here if it doesn't work out.
(09-21-2017, 04:36 AM)Jayce Wrote:
Quote:With disco aiming system it is all about those natural abilities, so dont trow "get good" argument, you cant "get good" against your own biology.
That's a shame. Get over it. I blow in snubs, because my reaction time is poor. You don't see me whining and moaning because someone beat me. I just fly something else.
You should try that, too.
When someone says "they do this and they do that" they usually don't mean every single one of "them" does it, but that it's their general experience.
The general experience I had on discovery with "aces" (I know it's not all of them) is that "aces" prefer to attack people who they know can't defend themselves and then throw derogatory "RP" at them while, and for days after, they killed them. While most of the noobs don't go crying about how people are no fair but buy caps and build numbers instead.
But when something doesnt go the aces way (not every single one, but those that are most noticable), they moan about how missiles are OP, about how cap-hugging snubs suck, about how people who fly caps suck, about how base-hugging sucks, about how shieldrunning sucks, about how people who don't want to "duel" when they know they have no chance suck, and about how the only fight that is fair is the one where they're 99% sure to win.
Not every aces or every noob behaves that way, but it's the perception formed by experiences.
(09-21-2017, 04:36 AM)Jayce Wrote: Oh wait, that requires putting in time and effort. I've never seen a community so desperate to have everything handed to them on a silver platter in my life. This argument just doesn't happen in other MMOs. I dare you to say something like this about WoW, or BDO, or even TERA. You'll get laughed into the dirt. But here, on Disco? Oh man, we have to cater to every scrub and noob or else they'll leave, oh no!
Somehow I have the feeling that the games and servers you listed don't have the low-population problem that discovery has. That may have something to do with it.
Also, discover doesn't really cater to noobs. There literally is no progression where noobs get to have fun doing what they expect from a freelancer mod. It's something devs have continuously neglected and not cared about for years, and turned down many attempts to help fix.
The gear-gathering was killed by strict technerfs, the repping with missions and bribes was killed by ID autorepping, the exploration was killed by /restarts, the PvE was killed by no-CD easy to kill npcs, there is no interesting storyline they can meaningfully participate in, they can't form new groups without them getting stomped dead. All of that to make things more comfy for entitled vets.
All noobs are expected to do is be pirated while mining and trading, be easy targets, and behave in every way the vets want them to hoping to have a little more to say in a few years. And that's not much fun.
The "PvP is too difficult" is really just part of a much broader issue.